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AIBU?

Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

1001 replies

labpit · 28/01/2024 18:51

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

236 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
51%
You are NOT being unreasonable
49%
nowthelighthasgone · 28/01/2024 19:58

Naptrappedmummy · 28/01/2024 19:35

It won’t happen. They know it’s in the best interests of the country for at least some of the public to be properly educated - we need doctors, scientists, engineers, and they ain’t gonna flow from your average comprehensives.

The state system is a shower of shit and it will take far more than tax increase that would raise less than 1% of the entire education budget to fix it. Especially if thousands are forced into the state sector and need public funding themselves.

Counterproductive nonsense

Disgusting and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just posted to wind people up

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labpit · 28/01/2024 19:58

Yes, @Naptrappedmummy and @RedRidingGood the reason our children are at a private school has nothing to do with the academic outcome. It’s to avoid them mixing with children who are complete tearaways. Not a sweeping statement, lots of great children in the state sector, but not a gamble we wanted to take.

OP posts:
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Naptrappedmummy · 28/01/2024 19:59

nowthelighthasgone · 28/01/2024 19:58

Disgusting and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just posted to wind people up

No, ive clarified what I mean, and just to add my DD goes to STATE school

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labpit · 28/01/2024 20:01

nowthelighthasgone · 28/01/2024 19:58

Disgusting and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just posted to wind people up

@nowthelighthasgone are you referring to my OP?! What is wrong with worrying about a 20% increase on fees? The state sector IS shocking, if it was better then I would have any problem with my children being there.

Why all this pretence that state is adequate? and if it is, why care about people paying for education instead.. surely they’re just the idiots wasting their money?

OP posts:
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RockaLock · 28/01/2024 20:01

@RoseAndRose current VAT rules are, broadly, that when you register for VAT, you can reclaim VAT on your purchases made in the previous 4 years.

So unless Labour change that rule (which would be v unpopular with all businesses!) then schools would initially be able to make a huge VAT reclaim, especially if they had done large refurb/building projects recently.

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Naptrappedmummy · 28/01/2024 20:01

If I could afford private I would send my DD in a HEARTBEAT. Of course I’m jealous of people with this option, but that doesn’t mean I want to take it away from them because I understand why they’re doing it and would do it myself if I could.

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RedRidingGood · 28/01/2024 20:02

The school in my catchment has been rated requires improvement by OFSTED twice in a row. To me, education is everything. I can't sacrifice my DC future for the sake of appearing morally upright. I'm pragmatic, I'm doing the best that I can for my DC.

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Naptrappedmummy · 28/01/2024 20:03

RedRidingGood · 28/01/2024 20:02

The school in my catchment has been rated requires improvement by OFSTED twice in a row. To me, education is everything. I can't sacrifice my DC future for the sake of appearing morally upright. I'm pragmatic, I'm doing the best that I can for my DC.

Yes, my DC come before my scruples and if I had the cash they would go private tomorrow.

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mitogoshi · 28/01/2024 20:03

a. They need to pass a bill through parliament to make it happen
b. During that period it can be changed
c. That takes time and thus won't be their number one priority anyway
d. Its likely to from a future date eg imposed from September 26.

If your child is already at secondary school it may not even affect you as it may be phased in, so starting from x date. Schools can then offset vat paid eg on supplies, building etc so the difference is not 20% anyway

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IgnoranceNotOk · 28/01/2024 20:03

Naptrappedmummy · 28/01/2024 19:55

Nobody else will say it, so I will. Many many many parents across the country don’t give a shit about their kids. They raise them badly, back them when they disrupt their class, block any efforts to discipline them and generally take the path of least resistance because it’s less hassle and they tell themselves they’re ‘supporting their DC’. No amount of state school funding will fix this, it’s a parenting issue.

Why should parents who can cobble the money together and do their best to raise productive, considerate citizens allow their children to be disrupted and scupper their life chances for the sake of ‘equality’?

All equality means in this instance is bringing everyone down to the same level. Shooting the country in the foot in the process as we end up with an uneducated population and an overburdened state system.

I feel desperately sorry for the people who CANNOT cobble the money together and for that reason I think we need to reintroduce means tested grammars. Too many wealthy people use grammars when they can easily afford private.

Yep - parenting is the issue!
Politicians are too scared to say it and say parents need courses or consequences but it is true.

Teachers don’t want more money - they want funding, support and for parents to have to follow the rules and parent their children. Schools are finding it impossible to exclude pupils and if they do they’re put into another school to spoil another class’ education!

Politically I would want private schools and grammars abolished…
However as a teacher, if I had the money I would send mine to private school…

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MidnightPatrol · 28/01/2024 20:04

I have no horse in this race as I don’t have a child at private school.

However, I have wondered how this will impact funded places for lower income pupils (bursaries etc).

Will they just stop offering them, if no longer needing to prove they are charitable?

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EmmaGrundyForPM · 28/01/2024 20:04

I think @Naptrappedmummy and @WellWillWoll are proving that there is a very good case for abolishing private schools altogether.

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nowthelighthasgone · 28/01/2024 20:05

@labpit I was quoting @Naptrappedmummy not your OP.

That said, I do disagree with you that it's a "pretence" that state education is adequate. I think that an average child can do very well in state school and reach the best universities and have fulfilling careers.

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twistyizzy · 28/01/2024 20:06

MidnightPatrol · 28/01/2024 20:04

I have no horse in this race as I don’t have a child at private school.

However, I have wondered how this will impact funded places for lower income pupils (bursaries etc).

Will they just stop offering them, if no longer needing to prove they are charitable?

Yes our school have said they will stop any new bursaries

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Alcyoneus · 28/01/2024 20:06

Of course they will. Don’t you know it’s paying for more NHS funding, more schools, millions more houses, tons more benefits, a massive increase in armed forces, and an expedition to Saturn.

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LulooLemon · 28/01/2024 20:06

Large public schools will survive happily - Eton, Harrow, Marlborough, Radley, Cheltenham etc.

But small less well-known prep schools and small local private secondary schools will suffer.

We have a few near us. I predict they will all be turned into care homes.

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labpit · 28/01/2024 20:07

nowthelighthasgone · 28/01/2024 20:05

@labpit I was quoting @Naptrappedmummy not your OP.

That said, I do disagree with you that it's a "pretence" that state education is adequate. I think that an average child can do very well in state school and reach the best universities and have fulfilling careers.

@nowthelighthasgone yes of course they can. But if that’s what you believe then why are you wanting to effectively penalise people who choose to pay for their child’s education? Surely you’re happy with not paying as you’re getting out of it what you think is more than adequate? We’re the mugs paying for it instead…?

OP posts:
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twistyizzy · 28/01/2024 20:07

nowthelighthasgone · 28/01/2024 20:05

@labpit I was quoting @Naptrappedmummy not your OP.

That said, I do disagree with you that it's a "pretence" that state education is adequate. I think that an average child can do very well in state school and reach the best universities and have fulfilling careers.

Lol, how many state schools have you been in? Have you read any of the many posts by teachers about the conditions of many (not all) state schools? Lots of kids are NOT thriving in them. Our NDN is HoY in an outstanding state school, he sends his DD to private school.

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EasternStandard · 28/01/2024 20:08

Alcyoneus · 28/01/2024 20:06

Of course they will. Don’t you know it’s paying for more NHS funding, more schools, millions more houses, tons more benefits, a massive increase in armed forces, and an expedition to Saturn.

Yes it’s all they’ve got and it will raise loads

Sad though re bursaries in pp

And for not much, what a state we’re heading to

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ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/01/2024 20:08

nowthelighthasgone · 28/01/2024 20:05

@labpit I was quoting @Naptrappedmummy not your OP.

That said, I do disagree with you that it's a "pretence" that state education is adequate. I think that an average child can do very well in state school and reach the best universities and have fulfilling careers.

Have you been in a state school recently?

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AndThatWasNY · 28/01/2024 20:09

Naptrappedmummy · 28/01/2024 19:55

Nobody else will say it, so I will. Many many many parents across the country don’t give a shit about their kids. They raise them badly, back them when they disrupt their class, block any efforts to discipline them and generally take the path of least resistance because it’s less hassle and they tell themselves they’re ‘supporting their DC’. No amount of state school funding will fix this, it’s a parenting issue.

Why should parents who can cobble the money together and do their best to raise productive, considerate citizens allow their children to be disrupted and scupper their life chances for the sake of ‘equality’?

All equality means in this instance is bringing everyone down to the same level. Shooting the country in the foot in the process as we end up with an uneducated population and an overburdened state system.

I feel desperately sorry for the people who CANNOT cobble the money together and for that reason I think we need to reintroduce means tested grammars. Too many wealthy people use grammars when they can easily afford private.

I thought you were going to say that.." no one else will say it ...many parents. Don't give a shit .. and send their kids to boarding school 😂

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EasternStandard · 28/01/2024 20:09

nowthelighthasgone · 28/01/2024 20:05

@labpit I was quoting @Naptrappedmummy not your OP.

That said, I do disagree with you that it's a "pretence" that state education is adequate. I think that an average child can do very well in state school and reach the best universities and have fulfilling careers.

Of course they can. It takes a good catchment but we’ve used it

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Throwawayme · 28/01/2024 20:09

Naptrappedmummy · 28/01/2024 19:35

It won’t happen. They know it’s in the best interests of the country for at least some of the public to be properly educated - we need doctors, scientists, engineers, and they ain’t gonna flow from your average comprehensives.

The state system is a shower of shit and it will take far more than tax increase that would raise less than 1% of the entire education budget to fix it. Especially if thousands are forced into the state sector and need public funding themselves.

Counterproductive nonsense

Oh fuck off. I know people in all three of these professions from comprehensives including my dad and my sister! What an attitude!

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MidnightPatrol · 28/01/2024 20:09

@LulooLemon The prep schools already seem to be struggling to recruit pupils.

I have seen a couple close down this year locally - and a couple go co-Ed (usually a sign they can’t get enough pupils!).

They are charging £22k+ a year though. Massive amount to commit to from 4-18 - especially if you have more than one child.

IMO a lot of these schools have priced themselves out of their usual customers budgets already.

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BarelyLiterate · 28/01/2024 20:10

I certainly hope so, but all the current indications is that Starmer is so determined not to scare the horses or provide the right-wing press with any sticks with which to beat him that we won’t know if they will actually do anything until they are in government.

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