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AIBU?

Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

1001 replies

labpit · 28/01/2024 18:51

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

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Am I being unreasonable?

236 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
51%
You are NOT being unreasonable
49%
WellWillWoll · 28/01/2024 20:37

UtterlyButterly2048 · 28/01/2024 20:15

Yes they will and yes, it will be a shit show. The usual political strap line (and both parties are as bad as each other) with no thought behind it. All the parents (and there are MANY) who skin themselves to send their children to private school, will be priced out. There ARE no available state school places for their children, so what happens to them? The money raised won’t go anywhere NEAR creating enough state school places or raising state school standards to the level they should be at and even if it did, it would take years for that money to filter through and make real change, so more generations of children, who already suffered thorough covid, get shafted again?
Meanwhile, the uber rich don’t even notice the extra 20% and just carry on. Who, exactly benefits from this? No one. It’s a bull shit policy and I would never vote for it. If you want to live in a communist state, there are many you can move to.

Completely agree with all of this.

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Yesnosorryplease · 28/01/2024 20:37

labpit · 28/01/2024 20:30

@Yesnosorryplease

that’s great you have that view and perspective on it. So you’re happy with state - great. Surely you don’t want to penalise the mugs who are choosing to pay for education, then? Because after all, why would you care if we waste our money on something you are so sure is unnecessary? I’ll wait for your reply although I suspect it won’t be forthcoming or clear.

I don't think it helps society for children to be hived off into little bubbles where they're told they're better than everyone else and only people like them should take on positions of responsibility or importance in public services.

I genuinely think the way you speak about the vast majority of children and the education they receive demonstrates quite clearly why private schooling is not a good idea.

It's not about penalising people, it's about not subsidising it with tax breaks. It costs what it costs. Some people can afford it at x level, and some people can't. It they increase the cost, more people will not be able to afford it. They are then in the exact same position as the people who couldn't afford it at the previous price. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept.

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wonderstuff · 28/01/2024 20:39

I moved to a catchment with ‘outstanding’ schools, it’s still pot luck whether your kids will get good teachers at the right times, I’m paying for tutoring for English for dd, who actually had a really good primary education and other than English a reasonable secondary education. I’ve moved ds because despite being at the same schools he had a pretty poor time at both schools. I’ve worked at RI schools with some great teachers. OFSTED is more reliable at telling you about house prices than how good a school is.

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thefallen · 28/01/2024 20:39

PriceMeByTheYard · 28/01/2024 19:39

"It won’t happen. They know it’s in the best interests of the country for at least some of the public to be properly educated - we need doctors, scientists, engineers, and they ain’t gonna flow from your average comprehensives."

How fucking insulting. I hope they do whack up the fees to eye-watering levels, if that's the prevailing attitude in the sector.

Right?! I was State-educated in 'your average comprehensive' and do one of those jobs. That attitude is so rude and so inaccurate.

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labpit · 28/01/2024 20:40

Yesnosorryplease · 28/01/2024 20:37

I don't think it helps society for children to be hived off into little bubbles where they're told they're better than everyone else and only people like them should take on positions of responsibility or importance in public services.

I genuinely think the way you speak about the vast majority of children and the education they receive demonstrates quite clearly why private schooling is not a good idea.

It's not about penalising people, it's about not subsidising it with tax breaks. It costs what it costs. Some people can afford it at x level, and some people can't. It they increase the cost, more people will not be able to afford it. They are then in the exact same position as the people who couldn't afford it at the previous price. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept.

@Yesnosorryplease i went to private school. At no point was I ever told I was better than anyone else. My school was obviously very different to yours.

Why you care about VAT on school fees when you’re very happy with the state sector is beyond me. I have no interest in burying a Ferrari but wouldn’t be eager to whack a new tax on for those that do… I think it’s idiotic to spend so much on a car, so I don’t. But I wouldn’t be spiteful about someone else paying for it.

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labpit · 28/01/2024 20:40

*buying

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ltscoldonthesidelines · 28/01/2024 20:43

My understanding is that it can be reclaimed for capital projects. I’m not sure if it’s a sliding scales, it might be. I think it goes back 7 years.

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owlsinthedaylight · 28/01/2024 20:45

Yesnosorryplease · 28/01/2024 20:37

I don't think it helps society for children to be hived off into little bubbles where they're told they're better than everyone else and only people like them should take on positions of responsibility or importance in public services.

I genuinely think the way you speak about the vast majority of children and the education they receive demonstrates quite clearly why private schooling is not a good idea.

It's not about penalising people, it's about not subsidising it with tax breaks. It costs what it costs. Some people can afford it at x level, and some people can't. It they increase the cost, more people will not be able to afford it. They are then in the exact same position as the people who couldn't afford it at the previous price. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept.

What is the tax break you think people are being subsidised with?

Presumably not VAT. VAT is a sales tax and has never been payable on education previously. A tax break would be an existing tax from which someone has been exempt.

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Dibblydoodahdah · 28/01/2024 20:47

Yesnosorryplease · 28/01/2024 20:37

I don't think it helps society for children to be hived off into little bubbles where they're told they're better than everyone else and only people like them should take on positions of responsibility or importance in public services.

I genuinely think the way you speak about the vast majority of children and the education they receive demonstrates quite clearly why private schooling is not a good idea.

It's not about penalising people, it's about not subsidising it with tax breaks. It costs what it costs. Some people can afford it at x level, and some people can't. It they increase the cost, more people will not be able to afford it. They are then in the exact same position as the people who couldn't afford it at the previous price. I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept.

My DS2’s private school is far more diverse than the 99.9% white working class comp that I went to. Many state schools are a little bubble because they represent the area they are situated it.

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hangingonfordearlife1 · 28/01/2024 20:47

why is everyone so focussed on forcing academics down kids throats....our country needs trades! trades men are very successful financially. we need to get out of this whole thought process that every child must get 3 a levels and got to oxbridge

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WellWillWoll · 28/01/2024 20:47

@Yesnosorryplease

I can assure you nobody has ever told my children they're 'better than anyone else'.

They both still hang out with pre private school friends, friends from work and friends from local hobbies. You'll be astonished to hear that they don't spend their weekends playing polo and croquet and mixing with nobility 😂

What a bizarre comment.

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Yesnosorryplease · 28/01/2024 20:49

No one at my school had that attitude, it's the ones being spouted here by @Naptrappedmummy for example.

I didn't really have a view re vat on fees, I do feel strongly that our local private schools are taking the *"': with charitable status. I was reading the posts mulling it over and I found your posts about tearaways and @Naptrappedmummy talking rubbish about professions really offensive. I'm not voting Labour regardless but I'm afraid neither of you have engendered sympathy nor made me wish I could send my DC to the establishments you pay for.

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RockaLock · 28/01/2024 20:49

Why do people always assume that private schools have "ridiculous added on costs, trips, transport, lunches exorbitant uniform prices etc.".

Some might. Lots don't!

For example, DS' indie school, South London. Blazer is a bog standard black polyester one, cost £30. Any black trousers. Any white shirt. Badged (acrylic) jumper if you want to wear one. Polyester tie, about a fiver.

Admittedly the sports kit is extensive and relatively expensive, but no more so than the state grammar school that my nephews go to. And our PTA run second hand sales every term, so there's no need to buy anything new if you don't want to.

Any subject-based day trips that are required e.g. geography field trips, history trips etc, we are not charged any extra for. There are expensive residential trips, but none of these are compulsory, even if related to a subject, and plenty of boys don't go on them. My DS have never been on any of those (out of choice, not budget) and don't feel as though they've missed out.

All extra curricular clubs are free, other than music lessons. School lunches are not compulsory, you can bring in a packed lunch, and if you want to buy a lunch it's very reasonably priced. You don't have to pay for a whole term of lunches or anything, you just top up their lunch account when needed, via a parentpay-type account.

If you want to get the school minibus to school, it's no more expensive than taking the train every day.

About 40% of pupils at their school receive financial support, via bursaries or scholarships.

And they are certainly not "told they are better than everyone else" Hmm

Please stop assuming every private school is like Eton or Winchester. Most aren't.

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Yesnosorryplease · 28/01/2024 20:50

WellWillWoll · 28/01/2024 20:47

@Yesnosorryplease

I can assure you nobody has ever told my children they're 'better than anyone else'.

They both still hang out with pre private school friends, friends from work and friends from local hobbies. You'll be astonished to hear that they don't spend their weekends playing polo and croquet and mixing with nobility 😂

What a bizarre comment.

Read @Naptrappedmummy comment re society needing the output of private schools.

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XelaM · 28/01/2024 20:50

labpit · 28/01/2024 20:40

@Yesnosorryplease i went to private school. At no point was I ever told I was better than anyone else. My school was obviously very different to yours.

Why you care about VAT on school fees when you’re very happy with the state sector is beyond me. I have no interest in burying a Ferrari but wouldn’t be eager to whack a new tax on for those that do… I think it’s idiotic to spend so much on a car, so I don’t. But I wouldn’t be spiteful about someone else paying for it.

This. My daughter is in Year 9 at an independent and has been privately educated since reception. At no school was she ever told she was better than anyone in the state sector. In fact, most parents tried for grammar schools. All the families in her circle of friends are very normal average middle class families- not kids of oligarchs with private yachts.

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toolatetostartagain · 28/01/2024 20:51

I hope they do and immediately!

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labpit · 28/01/2024 20:52

Yesnosorryplease · 28/01/2024 20:50

Read @Naptrappedmummy comment re society needing the output of private schools.

@Yesnosorryplease

@Naptrappedmummy is correct. Because state schools don’t produce the same number of people in these professionals as private school. That is a fact. Perhaps focus on why that is, rather than wanting to drag everyone into state education.

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Dibblydoodahdah · 28/01/2024 20:53

RockaLock · 28/01/2024 20:49

Why do people always assume that private schools have "ridiculous added on costs, trips, transport, lunches exorbitant uniform prices etc.".

Some might. Lots don't!

For example, DS' indie school, South London. Blazer is a bog standard black polyester one, cost £30. Any black trousers. Any white shirt. Badged (acrylic) jumper if you want to wear one. Polyester tie, about a fiver.

Admittedly the sports kit is extensive and relatively expensive, but no more so than the state grammar school that my nephews go to. And our PTA run second hand sales every term, so there's no need to buy anything new if you don't want to.

Any subject-based day trips that are required e.g. geography field trips, history trips etc, we are not charged any extra for. There are expensive residential trips, but none of these are compulsory, even if related to a subject, and plenty of boys don't go on them. My DS have never been on any of those (out of choice, not budget) and don't feel as though they've missed out.

All extra curricular clubs are free, other than music lessons. School lunches are not compulsory, you can bring in a packed lunch, and if you want to buy a lunch it's very reasonably priced. You don't have to pay for a whole term of lunches or anything, you just top up their lunch account when needed, via a parentpay-type account.

If you want to get the school minibus to school, it's no more expensive than taking the train every day.

About 40% of pupils at their school receive financial support, via bursaries or scholarships.

And they are certainly not "told they are better than everyone else" Hmm

Please stop assuming every private school is like Eton or Winchester. Most aren't.

Absolutely, I have one in private and one in state grammar. The cost of uniforms, trips, school uniforms is very similar. In fact it’s our local “requires improvement” state comp that has the ridiculously expensive uniform including shirts and trousers embroidered with the school logo. My DC’s just have plain trousers and shirts from Sainsburys or M & S!

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Yesnosorryplease · 28/01/2024 20:53

RockaLock · 28/01/2024 20:49

Why do people always assume that private schools have "ridiculous added on costs, trips, transport, lunches exorbitant uniform prices etc.".

Some might. Lots don't!

For example, DS' indie school, South London. Blazer is a bog standard black polyester one, cost £30. Any black trousers. Any white shirt. Badged (acrylic) jumper if you want to wear one. Polyester tie, about a fiver.

Admittedly the sports kit is extensive and relatively expensive, but no more so than the state grammar school that my nephews go to. And our PTA run second hand sales every term, so there's no need to buy anything new if you don't want to.

Any subject-based day trips that are required e.g. geography field trips, history trips etc, we are not charged any extra for. There are expensive residential trips, but none of these are compulsory, even if related to a subject, and plenty of boys don't go on them. My DS have never been on any of those (out of choice, not budget) and don't feel as though they've missed out.

All extra curricular clubs are free, other than music lessons. School lunches are not compulsory, you can bring in a packed lunch, and if you want to buy a lunch it's very reasonably priced. You don't have to pay for a whole term of lunches or anything, you just top up their lunch account when needed, via a parentpay-type account.

If you want to get the school minibus to school, it's no more expensive than taking the train every day.

About 40% of pupils at their school receive financial support, via bursaries or scholarships.

And they are certainly not "told they are better than everyone else" Hmm

Please stop assuming every private school is like Eton or Winchester. Most aren't.

All of our local private schools do have extensive additional costs that are non negotiable, lunches have to be bought, uniforms that can only be purchased from one supplier at huge cost, and the daily transport is thousands a term. The bursaries available locally are a small percentage of fees and not guaranteed year in year, and the financial support does not extend to all the extras.

Equally, please don't assume that anyone not in favour is ignorant of the facts.

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HeadNorth · 28/01/2024 20:53

My DD’s both went to the local comp and have professional jobs, so no need to wring your hands in despair that the country will go to hell in a handcart if children aren’t privately educated. Us comp school kids aren’t all mouth breathing thickies we are perfectly capable of being doctors, engineers, dentists etc. Honestly, what insulting, reactionary, ignorant hogwash 😡

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PastTheGin · 28/01/2024 20:53

There is no space in state schools for kids to go to if parents can’t afford fees any more. If anything it will be gradual, but I am pretty sure they will forget about it.

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TeenLifeMum · 28/01/2024 20:55

@WellWillWoll my friend sends her dc to an independent school and all through the prep everything was fine but the eldest is now at the senior school and her attitude sucks. She speaks down to my dc, complains about our house (we don’t have parking for 5 cars so her family parked at the end of the road and had to walk… passing 6 houses), criticised my choice of reading book because it wasn’t academic enough (I’m studying for a masters but sometimes read teen literature). It has been the weirdest transition seeing her change but I’m guessing those commenting have similar examples. Doesn’t mean all schools are like that, but some really are.

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labpit · 28/01/2024 20:55

HeadNorth · 28/01/2024 20:53

My DD’s both went to the local comp and have professional jobs, so no need to wring your hands in despair that the country will go to hell in a handcart if children aren’t privately educated. Us comp school kids aren’t all mouth breathing thickies we are perfectly capable of being doctors, engineers, dentists etc. Honestly, what insulting, reactionary, ignorant hogwash 😡

@HeadNorth nobody said comp school kids are mouth breathing thickies.

@Naptrappedmummy commented that MORE people from private schools go into such professions compared with state schools. Which is a fact. Again, let’s focus on why that is rather than pretending all state schools are adequate because they are not.

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WellWillWoll · 28/01/2024 20:56

@TeenLifeMum

Blimey 😧

That sounds horrendous. But I think I might put some of that down to the parenting rather than the school.

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UtterlyButterly2048 · 28/01/2024 20:56

@thefallen i too am state educated and am, objectively “successful”. That in no way prevents me seeing the benefit of private education.

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