Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

[labpit]

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

The VAT legislation is easily capable of separating private school fees from uni fees. The only reason VAT would be added to uni tuition fees is if the government chose to impose it, which no go WRE we would.

The military is and has been depleted for many years and plan is still to cut further.

Boarding fees are around 10k to 14k per term, i doubt too many lower ranks can afford that, how do they manage?

Leaving the military is not a question of giving 4 weeks leave either.

An increasing number of people I know with husbands in the forces, buy a house somewhere, usually near maternal family, and the DH goes off as posted. This allows the DC to settle into school and be able to join clubs etc. I don't quite understand why this isn't what more people do. My DH works away loads and I wouldn't dream of packing up and going with him. I personally find it weird that a) the forces plan everything so badly that people move around so much - my friend's DH has been moved several times, within the UK, to do very boring desk jobs that could be much more efficiently planned out b) that we all pay for everything each time they move, when my cousin who is a doctor married to a doctor has had to buy a camper van and pay for short term rentals etc to be able to fulfil the requirements of the deanery for them to move around for work and is not remotely supported by the tax payer.

I’m in strong support of the VAT as long as they use some of it to fund some “state scholarships” so that the smartest children from less successful families can go to private school for free.

@EasternStandard ,

It will raise money net, including the pupils that have to leave, according to most reliable estimates.

And it is demonstrably fair.

I didn't say that.

The post asked why if parents are able to pay childcare fees its beyond the realms of possibility they could do it for private school...

I simply pointed out that many don't pay. Universal credit does. Moot point.

@DonnaBanana ,

Full bursaries are already available to the brightest kids at most private schools.

Bursaries are often where mid ranking private schools get their oxbridge candidates from. They really want these pupils so their results and leavers’ destinations look better.

Where are these reliable estimates? I have yet to see any.

This is the thing with money though, always someone with more and others with less . For those with less, you will be rich relative to them, especially being able to set aside enough to pay tens of thousands for a non-essential luxury.

Some users on this board couldn't even dream of owning an old car or holidaying to Wales. They're sitting at home under a blanket with no heating on waiting on the food bank opening as they haven't eaten all weekend.

It will be hard to convince genuinely 'not rich' people that this isn't a good and fair policy. Personally I doubt schools will be inundated with kids being pulled from private schools, most parents are probably proper rich and the majority of 'not rich' will manage somehow.

To answer the OP, I would expect this to start as soon as they can get the laws changed, it is a easy vote winner for Labour.

And lots of those that aren't receiving universal credit get help from grandparents for some of the required childcare days or space out their children so that they didn't have to pay 2 x nursery fees as the eldest would be at school or receiving free hours by the time the youngest starts nursery. I know very few people who have paid max nursery fees for more than one child, for more than about 6 months. Private school fees for 10+ years is somewhat different.

@Newbutoldfather have you been listening at all to the news in the last couple of years about high numbers of kids with EBSA and undiagnosed ASD? The "questionable" SEN that is referred to perhaps? I can assure you that the quiet, calm family like environment provided by the school my kids attend is entirely worth it. Its non selective and takes a large number of kids who simply can't cope in the 1000+ comps of mainstream state. I don't rate the fees as worth it based on the GCSE outcomes or ultimate careers, but if they can make it to 16 without harming themselves or entirely refusing school then it is a win as far as I am concerned. Its appalling that there are so many kids who don't have this escape route open to them but making it more difficult or impossible for almost all is not going to help in any way. If I thought the fee increase would magically fix the state sector I'd vote for it in a heartbeat and get on with fixing my house that has numerous issues, but it won't so my kids' wellbeing comes first.

6. Combining estimated tax revenues and extra public spending needs, our view is that it would be reasonable to assume a net gain to the public finances of £1.3–1.5 billion per year in the medium to long run as a result of removing tax exemptions from private schools. This would allow for about a 2% increase in state school spending in England, which Labour has proposed would be targeted at disadvantaged students.

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/tax-private-school-fees-and-state-school-spending

@Yesnosorryplease I'm pleased you wouldn't mind living apart from your husband. The fact is I quite often do. How often do doctors go to war zones and get shot at as they move around the Uk?

I want my children to see their dad as often as they can. Thank you for paying for my substandard mouldy house that wouldn't be able to be let privately. That i still pay high rent on. And of course, neither dh nor I pay tax on our jobs so it's great that there's people like you out there 🙄

😅👍🏻

It’s not a moot point because lots of people don’t get universal credit. And they wouldn’t actually be “paying” if UC in funding it. It would be the taxpayer that is paying it. Plenty of people pay for nursery out of their own pocket. Some, like myself, decide to go on paying the same amount for school fees.

To answer the original question and not get into the specific political argument, yes private schools are assuming this is going to happen.

The private school group my DC attend are planning to offer out the payment of fees upfront prior to the VAT implementation so parents can avoid the extra 20%. We will have one DC in sixth form and one in yr 9 from September and so it's a no brainer for us to pay fees upfront. We have the cash to do it. Loads of other parents will do the same with kids part way through their school life. Thus the more wealthy will circumnavigate this cost and the middle cohort whose parents have less access to cash lump sums will either have to stump up or remove their kids if cost becomes prohibitive.

Further down the line private schools will become the bastion of the more wealthy and create a wider gap between state and private education.

I'm not getting into my thoughts on this policy except to say that private school parents moving into state education will not improve the state offer. If current parents cannot get standards raised, what magic do people think private school parents possess to achieve this??

For the vast majority it doesn't matter how many sacrifices they make they Will never be able to afford private school.

This is us too. Have sent the oldest child who was not coping to mainstream private and the difference in their happiness is shocking. Self harming to sheer joy. I am fighting tooth and nail to get the local education department to improve the state offering as their 10 year old sibling is just about coping in mainstream and we have very little money left to move them.

i think state schools could get themselves out of the hole they are currently in but it would take about 20 years and a lot of money.

4If demand for private schooling reduces as a result of increases in post-tax fees, the additional tax revenue raised would likely be unaffected. This is because any reduced revenue from VAT on private school fees will likely be made up for by higher VAT revenues on other goods and services, holding overall consumer spending constant. If parents decided to stop paying for private school fees as a result of the extra VAT, this would release spendion fees that would likely be spent on other goods and services, thereby generating extra VAT revenues.

What utter bollocks. When our school fees finish is seven years time, I won’t be flashing the cash on fancy holidays and a new car. It will be extra pension payments and overpaying the mortgage.

You’re brave op 😂 posting about this on mumsnet no less! (Tin) Hats off to you!

No - I don’t think it’ll happen.

Exactly

For the majority work is also a necessity. Private school is a choice. They can't be compared.

@@Dibblydoodahdah ,

I hope your private school didn’t teach you statistics.

Anecdote ain’t data. Who cares what you will do (other than you and your family)?

The IFS is a pretty reputable independent source.

My friend's DH has had desk jobs in places like Winchester and Surrey and his only recent time abroad has been spent skiing or doing water sports, yet the tax payer has paid for every move! As a tax payer, do you believe that to be a good use of funds?

I'm not 'pleased' to live apart from my husband. I manage with the cards life has dealt because it is both important for our DC to have stability, and I need to work too. His job requires him to work away, so we work around that.

Dismissing others' contributions doesn't serve you well. We all need soldiers, and we all need doctors and it is my opinion that we should all be share shouldering the burden of their training bit fir some reason we help some far more than others and I don't agree with that.

BibbleandSqwauk

And what about the many, many children with inherited ND in struggling families who have struggled for generations to even hold down jobs let alone pay private schools fees which are more than many earn?

This much needed revenue will go towards helping these children and with a government more likely to care about SEN help create improved provision for all.

The poster appeared unaware that many have childcare fees paid for them. So it's entirely moot to make a comparison of apples and oranges. As others have also pointed out.