Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

[labpit]

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

@MikeRafone and those from the state sector…….?

@OddSock5 nobody is saying that. Statistically more people from the private sector meet the academic requirements for professional jobs, due to huge failings in the state sector.

My local school has lots of Oxbridge candidates and plenty of doctors, engineers etc..in recent years.

There are some excellent state schools.

@Willyoujustbequiet yes, some.

Of course they will implement it, and so they should.

There is so much wailing and gnashing of teeth by the privileged about this fee increase, but how much have fees gone up in the last 10 years, and why? And why has this raid on your wallets not even been questioned?

Private school fee rises have vastly exceeded inflation, to pay got bloated management structures and entire marketing departments. Next time you are stretched for your skiing holiday, check out your schools insta feed and wonder how it is paid for. And how about the new computer centre, state-of-the-art gymnasium, theatre with full time theatre assistants etc etc

There seems an amazing willingness to pay whatever a school charges, except to pay a fair tax that all other businesses charge…

Wouldn't it be better to focus on this, rather than protecting the incomes of some of the countries wealthiest families? (yes i know some PS families are on national min wage and working 250hrs per week to make ends meet)

We are missing out on the potential of so many of the nations children.

However, Labour do need to show their workings on this policy.

What i find worrying is, pre this policy, we never got parents of PS educated children campaigning for improved state sector schooling, so if nothing else, this policy is driving the debate and highlighting the governments failings.

@Newbutoldfather your post just shows how ignorant must people are about most private schools and the reasons many of us bust a gut to keep our kids there. I say again, the private sector scoops up a huge amount of SEN that the state sector cant or wont provide.

Every days a school day. I just read that 80% of applications for medicine come from just 20 state schools.

The main reason that private schools do better (not the only one) is they start, on average, with brighter pupils.

Their cognitive scores at entry average about 10 points higher, about 110 vs 100. They also have more invested parents.

If you strip all this stuff out, they add remarkably little value (academically) for the price.

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My youngest has just left private school. We were one of those families who just about managed the fees by scrimping and saving our public sector salaries. It was a very hard decision which we questioned every year. Ultimately we were happy with the school. I acknowledge the privilege that we were able to afford the fees for more than one child, even with scrimping. There are many many more families who would never be able to afford those fees, so I consider myself ‘wealthy’ from that perspective. We will never know if the kids would have done as well at the local school but it is a decision we made at the time.

Our kids’ former school will stay open. It is a large London day school which is very popular. There is an increasing number of the oligarch-type families and I guess should Labour introduce these changes, then those families will make up a far larger percentage of the intake. There are plenty of million and billionaires in London who can take up those places.

I do wonder how the local state schools will cope with the influx. I imagine the private school families will take over property in the catchment areas of the best performing secondary and grammars here.

I have always known the private school system is unfair, despite sending my children there.

My youngest has started at Oxbridge and all her new friends are from the state sector. So clearly the comprehensive have been capable of turning out extremely bright young people. My daughter says it is quite a relief to be surrounded by families with incomes more similar to ours than the extremely wealthy families who we were friends with at the private school. While she loved her school, she did feel some pressure from her peers and the lifestyle and exotic holidays etc.

I have had little experience of the state sector recently. But reading threads on here fills me with horror. The teacher shortages and many issues would put me off going to the state sector if I was to have a young child now and could afford private. Of course, the recruitment issues will eventually trickle down to the private sector but for now my kids’ school does have specialist teachers for every subject.

Regarding that other poster’s somewhat controversial comments, I guess if things continue as they are in the state sector, then it is not inconceivable that more state school pupils may not achieve the grades required for professional careers. Not because of individual teachers, but because of the government’s determination to drive the state sector into the ground. That is no reflection on the families or teachers, but of the embarrassingly underfunded system in a first world country.

And yes I think Labour will stick to this proposal. But it won’t happen fast.

Yes I think they will but a a lower rate

money desperately needs to be found and this is just one way

According to the ISC, 103k pupils with SENs attend private schools, out of a total of 554k pupils.

That is a remarkably high number & percentage, yet just 7k have a specific educational plan in place.

I wonder what is the criteria is for SENs they use?

Great so let people pay and keep using the schools. It’s not much advantage anyway

How much money are you expecting?

@Absolutely45 ,

A lot of private schools take a lot of ‘SEN’ in.

As you said though, most don’t have serious need. A lot have mild (and controversially questionable) needs, in that they may have slow processing or mild dyslexia, but private schools are very reluctant to take on severe SEN, as it can be disruptive to the other pupils.

SEN lists are all coded, and it is remarkable how many ‘SEN’ pupils aren’t eligible for access arrangements for exams, a sign of real need. The vast majority that are just get 25% extra time.

I am sure there are specialist SeN schools who really help, but for most mainstream private schools, SEN provision is just another marketing tool.

You know the figures, 1.7bn from VAT alone, then there is business rates, money to used to fund free school meals in the state sector.

Like i said, i'd expect Lab to show the workings on the effectiveness of this policy first, prob in their manifesto.

How would you provide (fund) FSMs ?

@EasternStandard ,

I wouldn’t ban private schools, I think they serve a purpose.

They are already for the very wealthy, after the last 30 years of rampant fee inflation. They will just cut the bottom 5-10% of slightly less wealthy pupils.

I have no idea Eastern as Labour seems to have no idea

they are pretty confident they shall win the next election and already telling the public miney had to be found, this policy will pleases many and upset a few so it’s a relatively safe potential policy to put out there

MN doesn’t represent the uk population it has a very high number of MC and parents of privately educated children so it shall not be popular on here

I honestly think it is sad how many adults are almost gloating that those who currently just manage. I just get flashbacks to the extra £350 million the NHS was going to get once we left the EU.

My dd goes to boarding school because we are unable to give her a stable base for school due to my husband's job in the military. I think another effect of this will be that a lot of soldiers, raf and navy sign off because the life is no longer worth the disturbance to their families and they will not be able to sustain the costs. This is certainly the chat amongst a lot of families I know of.

Without military communities there are a lot of boarding schools that will be hit hard.

Perfect timing to deplete the military just as wolrld war 3 is being touted.

This is our plan. ds will sit GCSEs in 2025 after that hopefully he will get into a really good local state school for 6th form.

I’m sure some people will celebrate but it doesn’t make it a decent policy, it’s still a poor one

Driving economic decisions to get some envy votes is no great shakes whether this policy or the non dom one

@Newbutoldfather what’s so great about getting more people into state especially since private offers little advantage. It’ll close some schools, disrupt students and hardly bring anything in. Or maybe nothing in who knows.

Off topic but can I ask a genuine question about this? Assuming only one parent in military, why don't military families keep the children and non-military parent together in one place so the kids don't have to board, rather than keeping the adults together and boarding the children? I know nothing about the military so probably naive question.

So if you’re not on universal credit, you are super rich? In that what you are saying? There are many people who are not on universal credit and who pay their own nursery fees. I was one of them earning £38k at the time. I then continued with prep school because the fees were (and still are) very similar to day nursery. DS’ old day nursery is currently £1400 per month (or £16,800 per year). DS’ prep is £16,500 per year.

@CuntRYMusicStar - would you consider a state boarding school? Years ago we looked at Cranbrook (admittedly a grammar) but it was impressive.

The military point is very valid just as it has been stated we are already at unsafe levels of personnel.

Our grammar schools are expecting a huge rise in applications at Sixth Form next September from ex private school kids. They are happy with it as they have too many kids doing Maths/Science A levels and they are desperate for more Humanities and Arts based subjects and Modern Languages candidates.