Do you think labour will actually implement 20% vat on school fees?

[labpit]

We have two in Year 7 and year 10 and I am not sure what we will do if this happens. It is a certainty do you think?

Section 41 schools can be eye watering expensive it would make no sense to to kitchen with this tax as its LEA,s that are funding them.

I was reading an article that argued laying up front may not avoid VAT being payable, if the VAT is die when the service is delivered, not when it is paid for.

I went to a state comp! And where is the evidence that private school parents who change to state will spend the extra cash of goods that attract VAT? There is no evidence whatsoever.

And bursaries will be the first thing to go if VAT is brought in.

This isn’t the 1980s, nobody is drinking white lightening. State school or otherwise.

If you can afford for two children to go to private AND a holiday in Wales you're not hard up.

@twistyizzy ,

That argument is both incorrect and shows the kind of vengeful thinking a lot of the privileged feel.

Most bursaries are not from general fees, but given by alumni, alumna and other generous benefactors.

And schools will still want those super bright students to improve the results, which are a key part of their marketing strategy.

Firstly fees will go up about 10%, and the remaining 5% cost will be found by trimming fat, of which there is a lot in most public schools.

So much naivery from supporters of this policy.
The 1.5b is the optimistic figure bearing in mind schools can claim back VAT, they can't add VAT to transport, food or boarding. Legal fees to challenge the policy because be under no illusion that schools/the sector won't challenge this. So the actual amount recouped will be less than 1.5b.
Labout have already pledged that money for" FSM, mental health support and more teachers. Do the maths, how is 1% of the annual education budget going to pay for any 1 of these 3 things, let alone all of them? The 1.5 b won't even cover the cost of RAAC let alone anything else.

You think private parents will take theor kids out of private school and put them in the local sink comp? Of course they won't, they will buy houses in the catchment of the best state schools/take up grammar places etc.

This will be a barrier to Labour re-aligning to the EU and could be appealed through CHR. No other country taxes education. We are in a race to the bottom and be careful what you wish for, this opens the door to VAT on private health care and potentially after school clubs/sports clubs and even university.

Actually our school hqs already said they will stop any new applications for bursaries if the policy comes in. They will use bequeathed funds to support current students whose parents won't be able to afford the VAT rise. Like us!
You don't realise that the VAT will be on top of yearly fee rises so 8% fee rise plus VAT takes it well out of affordability for us.

The poster did not say that everyone who pays for nursery can afford private school and they also didn’t say that everyone pays all of their own nursery fees. But I know plenty of professional working women like myself who have decided to continue paying out every month once nursery comes to an end. Others decide that a new car and holidays to Florida are preferable. Their choice but it doesn’t mean that they couldn’t afford private school. There are state school teachers, police officers, nurses etc paying fees at my DS’ prep. They are not super rich.

@bleughgreen not bollocks at all. Obviously only one child, I'm not saying for one moment that all. PE children are like this. And to be fair, I suspect that it's a stupid "game" that some older children started and that it fizzled out pretty quickly. However, there is a sense of entitlement with some children which they will have had inculcated into them.by their parents - look at the poster above who has argued that we need private schools because we need surgeons and lawyers. That sort of attitude will be passed down to her dc.

My nieces are PE and are lovely, without a sense of entitlement as far as I can tell. So I'm not saying it's always the case. DH and I were also both PE, as were a lot of our friends. Interestingly, about half of our friends who went to private school have chosen to send their dc to local comprehensives. Not a money issue, more a recognition that. PE isn't worth it.

We are in a race to the bottom and be careful what you wish for, this opens the door to VAT on private health care and potentially after school clubs/sports clubs and even university

No it doesn’t. After school clubs and university are basic education. Private school isn’t.

I think they will, though whether it is from September 2025 or a different time remains to be seen.

Changes to tax levels are one of the quickest things a government can do from their manifesto. A new government will want to be seen to have begun on delivery, especially as the current one is talk and no action.

University isn't basic education. Compulsory education ends at 18, University is a choice. After school clubs aren't compulsory or essential

Similar here. Blazers about £50. A tie and a few bits of (reasonably-priced) sports kit. All shirts and trousers, socks are from John Lewis (but could be bought elsewhere we just prefer the JL to M&S etc). Not much difference to the DC who is at a state comp.

All school day trips included. All lunches included. School buses are around £500 per term, I’m not sure what the 2 longer routes cost but they wouldn’t be thousands.

I’m not sure what I think of the VAT increase yet. State schools aren’t miraculously going to get better. We are not Finland in many ways.

We should personally be able to manage the rise. If it came to it, we’d borrow. however, like others have mentioned will probably change at sixth form (which we did for an older DC anyway as we think sixth form colleges are a good transition between school and university, particularly to get them used to independent study). That will be more competition for sixth form places in state. pupils can go across education authorities at sixth form. It’s not so restricted by geographical area.

I think the school will be not be at risk of closure. However, I do know some parents really stretch. There are some recent immigrant parents for example who have jobs that I don’t think many white British people doing those jobs would be sending their children to private school.

That will very much depend on who is paying the bursary. If its a large endowment then it will carry on. If its fee income and you fill your places then there isnt much difference either - maybe a small reduction.

Schools that are charities will still have to act as charities even if there is vat. Other charities have to carry on being a charity even if they sell products that are vatable as part of their charitable activities.

The trustees could wind down the trust and sell the assets and use the funds from the sale for a similar purpose. A local school to me closed, the land was sold for houses and what was left after debts were paid was then invested and the trustees now offer grants to familes wanting music lessons and support music scholarships at other private schools.

Oh wow. People are so envious of those who can afford private schools.

This thread is full of petty, ridiculous arguments, most of them completely logic-free and based on nothing at all except some notion that it shouldn't be allowed, because Reasons.

In terms of economics and education, the VAT policy will harm everyone's children, everyone's chances. Like Brexit did and continues to do (though hopefully on a smaller scale). The line (read: vote winning lie) the politicians are peddling is equivalent to that stupid NHS bus.

So yes, if the majority of the country buy that shizzle and the majority were state educated, then according to the argument model demonstrated here then it follows that the majority of state educated adult people in this country are mouth breathing thickies.

But hey let's do it anyway and stick it to those fat cats yeah

shows the kind of vengeful thinking

Sadly this is coming from the Labour side, much on these threads too. A triumph of spite over economic literacy depressing to see.

I’m sure private are doing affordability studies directly with parents and they’ll know more than the IFS on behaviour change. As the latter will not have surveyed to the same extent.

Are they? I’m not envious, l just don’t believe in them. I’m not sure it’s harming all our children by introducing vat on fees. It wouldn’t harm mine. Theyre in state school.

I work in the finance department of a private school. The school will have to either pass on the VAT cost or pay the same amount over and then absorb it in other expenses. I cannot imagine for a moment that there are many schools that could completely absorb 20% of fee costs, as charities they are not supposed to be making big profits. So absorbing this would mean reducing teaching staff, increasing class sizes etc., removing things that make private education attractive.

We estimate that if we are able to recover from past building / renovation capital costs we could limit any increase to 10% initially, but there is going to be another step increase later.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow it harms everyone by pushing more kids into state (which state will have to fund where previously the parents did), by creating a system where potentially other kinds of private education are also taxed, by those with more cash moving into catchment of good schools and pushing others out

By destroying jobs that won't be immediately recreated

Studies have shown how the economic impact on the country would be counter productive

My kids are also in state and I don't want this ridiculous policy

Also @ArseInTheCoOpWindow it doesn't matter if you don't believe in them, they definitely exist, I've seen one

Unless you mean you don't believe they should exist ?

So Labour introduce VAT…

There is a huge exodus out of the private education system into state schools.

Ergo Labour raise LESS £££ to add into the state sector and the state sector is flooded with more children to educate.

(It’s a bit like the ‘argument’ that governments have with landlords. Make life TOO difficult for the landlords to continue, and they sell up, creating more of a problem in the rental market… But that’s another argument entirely!)

The only vengeful comments on here are from people supporting the VAT policy ie sock it to the rich, fat cats because it serves them right!

As far as I’m aware, the estimates don’t include potential/inevitable legal costs or the cost to HMRC of administering it.