To wonder why people aren’t worried about this??

[Mummytotwonow]

https://news.sky.com/story/time-to-think-the-unthinkable-and-consider-uk-conscription-says-britains-former-top-nato-commander-13056148

Sorry if I’ve missed any threads on this.

It’s not just sky news reporting this but for days now in the media this is being raised.

AIBU - to be extremely worried and concerned about this?

Is anyone else not worried?? Are we being prepared ready as “the higher up” know more and the threat is bigger than we’re told.

what age would it be from and to??

l‘m so scared for the world our children are growing up in 😢

I think before you bang on about not fighting, you have to think what the alternative is. Your sons could be conscripted to fight on the Russian side.

Thats similar to what happened to my family. They were Lithuanian Jews. Their country was under Russian occupation and my GPs family were Russian not Lithuanian. They were now marginalised and persecuted and living in ghettos but pre WW2 all Lithuanian (now Russian nationals ) men who were eligible, were to be conscripted into the Russian armed forces.

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat you are absolutely right. It is the consequence of being an island that often war is fought elsewhere. And yes, war is a matter of survival for those living and freedom for future generations so there is no choice. Eventually. I understand why you are worried but I really don't think we need to be worried about this.

I hope you are right.

I was convinced Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine though, yet here we are.

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat they did because they underestimated Ukraine. They thought they would be done in 3 days and here we are nearly 2 years later. Russia do not have the manpower or the weaponry to expand this war, and whilst they underestimated Ukraine (simultaneously a threat and the poor relation who needs to get back in their box) they do know they would not have the capability or the support, from say China, to start a war with NATO.

Last year our business was attacked, we suspect it was Russian hackers who attacked our rostering system. We lost hundreds of thousands of pounds. Any attacks I believe would be more along these lines which I can assure you still hurt but we have to stand up to Putin regardless until he is defeated.

Nicely put, however I would argue that the consequences of appeasement weren't just in Germany's favour. It gave Great Britain a chance to increase production of modern aircraft (Hurricane, Spitfire, Blenheim etc) and build up the anti-aircraft defences (prime example being the 3.7" Vickers QF heavy AA guns which my grandfather served on, having replaced the obsolete WW1 3" guns they had in the winter of 1939/40 having started initially with .303 Lewis guns once he was embodied into the local Territorial unit. Ammunition manufacturing too.) Most importantly it gave enough time to bring RDF properly on stream with the building and manning of Chain Home stations (that's what he was initially defending. Researching my grandfather is why I have all this detail 😁).

So, an extra year of upping fighting stocks, installing radar and training people was a direct benefit of appeasement. Neville Chamberlain has unfairly judged and derided in my opinion. It could be argued that he saved us.

RDF and AA in place with a reserve of fighter aircraft and strong leadership of ADGB (Air Defence Great Britain - Pile with AA, Dowding with the RAF, Beaverbrook with production) allowed 'The Few' to hold the line long enough for the Germans to make tactical errors that saw an invasion postponed then cancelled. North Africa and Russia sealed Germany's fate but if GB had been invaded successfully in 1940 it would have been game over. No 'aircraft carrier' / staging point for the (isolationist) USA to operate from IF they had chosen to (unlikely). No need for Hitler to rush into the Caucasus for the oil... appeasement allowed for the buck stopping at the channel.

What scares me is, if Trump become president, US get out of NATO, give Ukraine on the silver platter to Putin, what then.
Hopefully it won't happen.

I guess Putin thinks great, how can I expand further and starts eating up Eastern Europe. And we're back at Hitler 2.0 and a shitty prospect for the whole world. Great. I used to think Putin was more than this, but clearly not. And his successor is even worse so no point pinning hopes on him dying either

Even forget Ukraine for a second, and I am saying this as a Ukrainian. Do you think Europe has (a) sufficient military power (b) sufficient unity and resolve to fight back as one if Putin crosses Polish or Lithuanian border tomorrow? If the US opt out and Turkiye sends thoughts and prayers, and in presence of bad actors such as Hungary, Slovakia and far right + far left in other countries?

Rape of girls is a very real and serious risk of invasion on our own territory.

On most forums you’d be able to edit this unbelievably stupid post and pretend it didn’t happen. But not on Mumsnet.

😅

Yet Russia is gearing itself for a long war. Russian defence spending is set to account for 30-40% of their national GDP. The EU block including the UK stands at around 3-4%.
The Russians are hoping the soft-bellied Nato dither and fluster. Especially nations like the UK that have a steely military but a major problem with a dysfunctional entitled society. The UK has been caught napping.

Absolutely
Thanks for pointing that out @notimagain i had no idea about that side of their history.

@Justpontificating

"i had no idea about that side of their history."

I don't think many people do....there can be a lot more to being neutral than just being lucky with your geography.

https://www.vtg.admin.ch/en/home.html

Nicely put, however I would argue that the consequences of appeasement weren't just in Germany's favour. It gave Great Britain a chance to increase production of modern aircraft (Hurricane, Spitfire, Blenheim etc) and build up the anti-aircraft defences

@Damnloginpopup That wouldn’t happen now. Britain is no longer a manufacturing economy.

@Missamyp can you elaborate on this please? I don’t disagree as such just intrigued to hear what you mean.

Especially nations like the UK that have a steely military but a major problem with a dysfunctional entitled society. The UK has been caught napping.

@Missamyp they are settling in for a long war In Ukraine. They aren't even making significant land advances and they are losing up to a thousand men per day. Europe needs to strengthen itself militarily, its not wise to rely so heavily on the US, Trump or not, but I cannot see a conventional war with Russia. Oh, and I totally agree our young and even older generations would have a rude awakening if we did. Thanks to my grandad's generation we have all lived in relative peaceful times and to that generation I am forever grateful 🙏

Interesting thread with a healthy wide range of views. It's certainly helped me think through my attitude to the urgent question of a conscription law nobody is enacting, to fight a war which doesn't exist between two countries separated by an entire continent neither of whom have made any mention of ever declaring such a war.

My son (14) told me this morning he is ready to fight 😳. I was speechless. What convos are going on on TicToc that we don't know of and who is trying to influence our kids?

Wow, horrified by war but super horrified that noone thinks we have values worth fighting for. Putin and the Iranians will be pleased!

Judging by the comments, let’s hope we aren’t invaded (more than we are being every day of course), or have to go to war to defend our country, as everyone would run to the protective safe spaces created by parents. Sad times indeed. What have we become in one generation?? Embarrassing.

Think of all the land based wars... are any islands? Are any between 2 nuclear powers? Nope.. fact is if we get anywhere near a land based war on home soil we will all be fucked before we have to worry about conscription.

So Putin invades and then...forces your boys to fight in his next crazy war....

Because if they don't, when Putin/China invades they'll be called up to fight for an even more monstrous cause that cares even less about them.

Perhaps, then, we should be concerned & get involved before it gets to that point?...