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AIBU?

Not enough teachers are leaving

214 replies

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:29

Listening (again) to teacher friends (again) and school children (again).

Anarchy in the classroom, shouting, swearing, children walking out and running around the school, back breaking workload, constant, contradictory criticism, abuse from parents ( and from managers - many of whom are not teachers) no resources, children destroying the resources that do exist, heating / lighting/ IT continually failing, marking too heavy to carry...constant pressure to "achieve" results that are not in any way under your control, low pay, children who want to learn being denied the opportunity to......

Surely these conditions would not exist if teachers didn't collude with keeping them in existence - not all schools are like this. Why don't teachers simply refuse to go along with it? The children that are stuck in schools like this are not being given a fair chance in life, even the really naughty ones are only children, and deserve to be in a system where they can be disciplined and trained, and educated.

I know its hard when you are working 80 hours a week and have no time to think about it, and when you have a mortgage to pay. I've been there. But with hindsight, I should have simply refused to put up with it, long before I did.

More teachers should leave!

OP posts:

Am I being unreasonable?

587 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
57%
You are NOT being unreasonable
43%
VickyEadieofThigh · 23/01/2024 17:31

I suspect their need to pay their bills has something to do with it.

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:32

VickyEadieofThigh · 23/01/2024 17:31

I suspect their need to pay their bills has something to do with it.

There are easier ways!

OP posts:
Bluevelvetsofa · 23/01/2024 17:38

Maybe, just maybe, they feel a responsibility to those students who want to learn.

I think the tipping point has been reached though. I’ve said it for a while, but I really think it’s at the point of collapse now.

tinytemper66 · 23/01/2024 17:39

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:29

Listening (again) to teacher friends (again) and school children (again).

Anarchy in the classroom, shouting, swearing, children walking out and running around the school, back breaking workload, constant, contradictory criticism, abuse from parents ( and from managers - many of whom are not teachers) no resources, children destroying the resources that do exist, heating / lighting/ IT continually failing, marking too heavy to carry...constant pressure to "achieve" results that are not in any way under your control, low pay, children who want to learn being denied the opportunity to......

Surely these conditions would not exist if teachers didn't collude with keeping them in existence - not all schools are like this. Why don't teachers simply refuse to go along with it? The children that are stuck in schools like this are not being given a fair chance in life, even the really naughty ones are only children, and deserve to be in a system where they can be disciplined and trained, and educated.

I know its hard when you are working 80 hours a week and have no time to think about it, and when you have a mortgage to pay. I've been there. But with hindsight, I should have simply refused to put up with it, long before I did.

More teachers should leave!

Not like this in my school. Odd incidents but nothing like you describe.

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:41

Bluevelvetsofa · 23/01/2024 17:38

Maybe, just maybe, they feel a responsibility to those students who want to learn.

I think the tipping point has been reached though. I’ve said it for a while, but I really think it’s at the point of collapse now.

yes, feeling responsibility, I am sure. It is a trap though, and colluding with the conditions in school is not fair on current or future pupils. You just feel like it is the moral thing to do at the time. It isn't though.

OP posts:
sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:42

tinytemper66 · 23/01/2024 17:39

Not like this in my school. Odd incidents but nothing like you describe.

That is what I said, not all schools are like this. But far too many are. Teachers should be refusing to work there, and walking out.

OP posts:
pieceofpasta · 23/01/2024 17:42

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:29

Listening (again) to teacher friends (again) and school children (again).

Anarchy in the classroom, shouting, swearing, children walking out and running around the school, back breaking workload, constant, contradictory criticism, abuse from parents ( and from managers - many of whom are not teachers) no resources, children destroying the resources that do exist, heating / lighting/ IT continually failing, marking too heavy to carry...constant pressure to "achieve" results that are not in any way under your control, low pay, children who want to learn being denied the opportunity to......

Surely these conditions would not exist if teachers didn't collude with keeping them in existence - not all schools are like this. Why don't teachers simply refuse to go along with it? The children that are stuck in schools like this are not being given a fair chance in life, even the really naughty ones are only children, and deserve to be in a system where they can be disciplined and trained, and educated.

I know its hard when you are working 80 hours a week and have no time to think about it, and when you have a mortgage to pay. I've been there. But with hindsight, I should have simply refused to put up with it, long before I did.

More teachers should leave!

Yes you are absolutely right. Teachers accepting it and telling each other to accept it is part of the problem.

CormorantStrikesBack · 23/01/2024 17:43

Same for the nhs but people have bills to pay. It’s probably hard to walk into a job which pays similar.

I left the nhs for similar money in higher education. I hate it now, the working conditions/workload is terrible and getting worse. I fantasise about a simpler job but they seem to pay half my current wage. 🤷‍♀️. I am doing online courses in something totally unrelated trying to think about moving into IT, no idea if that’s feasible or not.

MrsALambert · 23/01/2024 17:43

I don’t want to leave. I love teaching, I’ve trained in it and dedicated many years to it and there isn’t another job I want to do. I want it to be better but all of us leaving isn’t the answer. Money, workload and managers not supporting their staff is the issue.

Flossflower · 23/01/2024 17:44

I am sure most teachers don’t resign because they have bills to pay.
Over time, I seen teachers asking what other careers they could do. Presumably they want the same salary, which is hard if you are starting again from scratch.

CormorantStrikesBack · 23/01/2024 17:44

I guess it’s also like the frog being boiled alive analogy….things slowly get worse a little bit at a time and you barely realise how bad it is.

RockStarship · 23/01/2024 17:44

I agree that teachers need to stop propping up the education system with good will, constantly going above and beyond (followed by burnout) and by paying for resources out of their own pocket. But on the other hand, the public needs to wake the hell up and listen when teaching staff are telling them the awful reality of the education system. And they need/needed to support strike action. There is a huge recruitment and retainment issue and yet there seems to be confusion over what this actually means in reality (based on another current education thread on here). Most parents don't seem to care about the problem until their own child is affected.

Alessya · 23/01/2024 17:45

Teachers have been striking over pupils’ appalling behaviour in Sheppey…

Gummybear23 · 23/01/2024 17:45

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:32

There are easier ways!

Easy to say that when you are not in the situation.

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:47

CormorantStrikesBack · 23/01/2024 17:44

I guess it’s also like the frog being boiled alive analogy….things slowly get worse a little bit at a time and you barely realise how bad it is.

Yes. It can be like being in an abusive relationship, I think.

OP posts:
TinyYellow · 23/01/2024 17:47

Teachers need job to pay their bills the same as everyone else.

Why blame teachers? The parents are the ‘consumers’, why don’t they do something and leave?

Alessya · 23/01/2024 17:48

I do know what you mean OP, but there’s a depressing whiff of victim-blaming about it.

What we need is for it to be super-easy to suspend or expel a child for unacceptable behaviour, and we need far more supportive pupil referral units. Instead the government seems determined to make expulsion difficult.

A problem is that one messed up child with a bad upbringing will misbehave st school, get away with it and then half the class copies the bad behaviour and the situation becomes impossible to manage. If instead the problem child was givent wo warnings and then expelled its much less likely other children would see the bad kid as a role model.

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:50

RockStarship · 23/01/2024 17:44

I agree that teachers need to stop propping up the education system with good will, constantly going above and beyond (followed by burnout) and by paying for resources out of their own pocket. But on the other hand, the public needs to wake the hell up and listen when teaching staff are telling them the awful reality of the education system. And they need/needed to support strike action. There is a huge recruitment and retainment issue and yet there seems to be confusion over what this actually means in reality (based on another current education thread on here). Most parents don't seem to care about the problem until their own child is affected.

haha, yes! I once had a parent at parent's evening complaining loud and long about her daughter not having a subject specialist in a core subject, when her daughter had been the final straw that had made the subject specialist resign. I wish I had said so to the woman.

OP posts:
VeterinaryCareAssistant · 23/01/2024 17:50

When I went to my grandson's school for a Christmas event there was a little girl being naughty. The teacher wanted her to sit down and stay in her seat but the girl was messing about. Rather than plonk her in the chair and tell her sternly to sit there and do as she's told, the teacher was softly softly saying "you're making red choices, please make green choices" over and over with the girl taking absolutely no notice.

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 23/01/2024 17:52

Alessya · 23/01/2024 17:48

I do know what you mean OP, but there’s a depressing whiff of victim-blaming about it.

What we need is for it to be super-easy to suspend or expel a child for unacceptable behaviour, and we need far more supportive pupil referral units. Instead the government seems determined to make expulsion difficult.

A problem is that one messed up child with a bad upbringing will misbehave st school, get away with it and then half the class copies the bad behaviour and the situation becomes impossible to manage. If instead the problem child was givent wo warnings and then expelled its much less likely other children would see the bad kid as a role model.

This ^

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:54

Alessya · 23/01/2024 17:48

I do know what you mean OP, but there’s a depressing whiff of victim-blaming about it.

What we need is for it to be super-easy to suspend or expel a child for unacceptable behaviour, and we need far more supportive pupil referral units. Instead the government seems determined to make expulsion difficult.

A problem is that one messed up child with a bad upbringing will misbehave st school, get away with it and then half the class copies the bad behaviour and the situation becomes impossible to manage. If instead the problem child was givent wo warnings and then expelled its much less likely other children would see the bad kid as a role model.

Yes, you are right, more supportive pupil referral units are very much needed. As it is all expulsion does is move the problem to someone else's classroom, rather than help the child in any way. many of the schools with the best results are simply the ones that expel more children, (or make their parents withdraw them voluntarily)

OP posts:
sazzy5 · 23/01/2024 18:18

TinyYellow · 23/01/2024 17:47

Teachers need job to pay their bills the same as everyone else.

Why blame teachers? The parents are the ‘consumers’, why don’t they do something and leave?

Well that’s what we did, it has cost us a fortune. The school wouldn’t deal with violence in the classroom and horrible bullying. What choice do most parents have though?

HarlaEB · 23/01/2024 18:25

I'm going to turn it back.

Why are parents not campaigning and complaining? Why do they accept poor education provision for their children?

Come on, stand up, complain, protest, vote differently. This is your precious child and their education.

Depressedhusbandbringingmedown · 23/01/2024 18:25

I think if ALL of the senior managers in schools were forced to teach at least three days a week, it be would a completely different picture.

Pieceofpurplesky · 23/01/2024 18:28

@Depressedhusbandbringingmedown I so agree with that. I work in a school where neither the head or deputy teach. They happily tell us we are shit (I'm over 50 so you know the drill) but in reality have no clue about the kids we teach.

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