Not enough teachers are leaving

[sharptoothlemonshark]

Listening (again) to teacher friends (again) and school children (again).

Anarchy in the classroom, shouting, swearing, children walking out and running around the school, back breaking workload, constant, contradictory criticism, abuse from parents ( and from managers - many of whom are not teachers) no resources, children destroying the resources that do exist, heating / lighting/ IT continually failing, marking too heavy to carry...constant pressure to "achieve" results that are not in any way under your control, low pay, children who want to learn being denied the opportunity to......

Surely these conditions would not exist if teachers didn't collude with keeping them in existence - not all schools are like this. Why don't teachers simply refuse to go along with it? The children that are stuck in schools like this are not being given a fair chance in life, even the really naughty ones are only children, and deserve to be in a system where they can be disciplined and trained, and educated.

I know its hard when you are working 80 hours a week and have no time to think about it, and when you have a mortgage to pay. I've been there. But with hindsight, I should have simply refused to put up with it, long before I did.

More teachers should leave!

Teaching starts out with a 30 k salary which is good. The problem is the scope for progression... you kind of hit a wall once on UPS. Of course there is senior leadership but not everyone wants to do that.
Like earning 46 k to be a head of department outside london is not that great, especially in expensive cities like Oxford and Cambridge

Exactly. The median full time worker in the UK earns £35,000 a year. Teacher wages are therefore distinctly average on the main pay scale. The wage is okay once you progress onto UPS and have a TLR (more stress) but I wouldn’t say teaching was a well-paid job.

Re paying bills.. I get paid almost £50,000 a year as am a senior leader. I get 13 weeks "off" (yes I do some work but I don't work all hols generally.. this year I did spend 3 weeks of my summer hols in school as I had inherited a shithole of an early years unit and no way was I having children coming in to that environment!!

Anyway.. what other profession could I walk into at this level with this salary? There isn't! I am trapped in teaching or the education sector.

I do, however, love my job so much but I can see the impact it has on my family.

Accordingly we make the most of weekends and holidays and I'm just permanently knackered in term time as I am often up at 5am to get a couple of hours work in or up late to get paperwork done!

See again I literally never said it was easy?! Quite clearly so many teachers are saying there are huge problems so there must be huge problems. My point is that teachers are not the ONLY ones to have it hard but are acting like they do!

I have worked in professions where I have worked 6am til 2am six days a week whilst dealing with the general public. I have also worked other businesses where I’ve not been able to have a day off (no weekends or evenings or bank holidays) 11-1am for 30 days straight with management quite literally not giving a shit. Literally 30 days of 12 hour shifts on my feet all day with about half an hour breaks. I quit because of management attitude.

I’ve been a chef in a hot kitchen on 12 hour shifts with colleagues all suffering mental health problems which impacted their work.

i could be a teacher and work 7-7 without complaint yes.

would I like or want to put up with the parents? No. The bad behavior with no ability to challenge? No. The risk of being falsely accused? No. I wouldn’t like it. I don’t want to be a teacher. You’re all saying it’s crap and I believe you.

I’m not telling you that you have an easy job. I’m telling you that you aren’t the only ones.

everyone should have good working environment and sadly A LOT of us don’t.

Why is there such a problem specifically in recruiting teachers? Is it hard to recruit in your industry?

If restaurant staff leave and can't recruit, that would be really sad for them all and the owner if they had to close, and for people who liked to eat there.
If teaching staff leave and they can't recruit, that's sad for any remaining staff but it's really really sad for children who don't get the education they deserve.

My point is that teachers are not the ONLY ones to have it hard but are acting like they do!

So teachers should just put up with the current situation, to the detriment of children andvthe quality of education they receive, because other people have hard working conditions?

If the evidence of my DCs' school years was anything to go by I would say the vast majority of parents are supportive of both their DCs' school and education.

Parents at my DCs' school were always respectful of teachers whenever I saw them at parents evenings. Possibly it makes a difference that a fair proportion of the parents had attended the same school themselves.

So don't lump all parents in together! We are not all violent bullies just waiting to threaten teachers. We want our DCs to do well at school.

I left the teaching profession due to the low pay as I was in the support teams.

I continue to volunteer as a youth leader in a group. I have noticed a very sharp decline in the behaviour of some of our members since the pandemic, and independence skills are very low.

We have had this happening locally to us https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/executive-head-crisis-hit-pencoedtre-28457650

My point is that teachers are not the ONLY ones to have it hard but are acting like they do!

Maybe your profession needs to get a bit more vocal then. We all know public services are in total breakdown. Whats your job?

See again I literally never said it was easy?! Quite clearly so many teachers are saying there are huge problems so there must be huge problems. My point is that teachers are not the ONLY ones to have it hard but are acting like they do!

No teachers are acting like they’re the only ones who have it tough. We all have partners or family members who work in other public or private sector jobs.

Part of the issue is the accountability and very public criticism we face in very difficult circumstances. Look how many threads you see on a weekly basis on here criticising schools or teachers. Teachers are therefore understandably vocal in response to this to try and explain the dire situation in schools. You might therefore see more teachers speaking up about the conditions compared to other professions. No one is saying we have it the worst. Who wants to win that competition?

I'm currently doing two days a week supply in a Scottish secondary school. I'm in my 60s, so age is having an impact - utterly exhausted.

I've been away from the job for 5 yrs for family reasons. Things were deteriorating before. Much worse now.

I was hurt stopping an assault last week and then stopping a fight the next day. (Teenage boys.) A colleague was hurt stopping a fight between two girls the other day. Another colleague - pregnant - was hit when two boys started to fight in a corridor.

Why am I still going in? Selfish reason - I'm a widow and I'm lonely...but I don't know how much longer I can take it. I also need to top up my reduced work pension until I qualify for the state pension (if it still exists).

More altruistic reasons - I'm helping the younger staff simply by being there. The 'quiet' kids seem to be relieved to see someone prepared to go in on a regular basis, even if it's only two days a week. (I'm a placeholder - they're waiting for two new folk to start.)

Another dept has only one permanent teacher at the moment. They've advertised for a HoD. No one wants the job.

I’m not telling you that you have an easy job. I’m telling you that you aren’t the only ones.

everyone should have good working environment and sadly A LOT of us don’t.

Basically, you're contributing nothing of use to the conversation..

School staff rightfully airing their grievances about their profession takes nothing away from other professions who have it hard. In the same way, other professions saying "well its hard for me too", contributes nothing to the teaching profession.. There's nothing useful or constructive in such comments.

And this is a thread about the dire conditions in schools that are contributing to the recruitment and retention crisis. Obviously that will mean teachers come on the thread to give their opinions and experiences as to why.
But that always gets extrapolated to
mean we're "always" moaning or that we think we're the only ones who have it tough.
A question was asked. We answered it.

Every area of education (even adult) now seems to be full of managers who have rarely (never) stood in front of a class, never completed a scheme of work or lesson plan or spent most of their day ticking boxes, but are (in theory, anyway) adept at telling others how it should be done.

All of the conditions you mentioned are why I'm now in private.

Ah yes - the “positive reinforcement “ . Another OFSTED gem.

You should have said it.
This is part of the problem.
You didn't say it because you imagined she would complain and the head teacher would drag you over the coals for stating the truth. You need to know your SLT will support you and say "I know you don't like it, but it's the truth".

The best schools are the ones with low staff turnover, which is usually due to better behaviour, thus perpetuating a cycle. The Govian reforms meant schools became like business and only the sycophantic arse-lickers made it to the top. Plus teachers and even leadership are powerless to address horrendous behaviour and make excuse for the kids with difficult pasts. Still, schools in deprived areas can be amazing, they just need to run them like army camps, which most leadership don’t have the stomach for.

You can’t ’just leave’ if you need the money and have a mortgage. The fact is, if you don’t mark and prepare work for the next day your work experience will be even more hellish. Had there been a local supermarket at the time, I’d certainly have left to work there. I retired 20 years ago and still resent having wasted my life on teaching.