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AIBU?

Not enough teachers are leaving

216 replies

sharptoothlemonshark · 23/01/2024 17:29

Listening (again) to teacher friends (again) and school children (again).

Anarchy in the classroom, shouting, swearing, children walking out and running around the school, back breaking workload, constant, contradictory criticism, abuse from parents ( and from managers - many of whom are not teachers) no resources, children destroying the resources that do exist, heating / lighting/ IT continually failing, marking too heavy to carry...constant pressure to "achieve" results that are not in any way under your control, low pay, children who want to learn being denied the opportunity to......

Surely these conditions would not exist if teachers didn't collude with keeping them in existence - not all schools are like this. Why don't teachers simply refuse to go along with it? The children that are stuck in schools like this are not being given a fair chance in life, even the really naughty ones are only children, and deserve to be in a system where they can be disciplined and trained, and educated.

I know its hard when you are working 80 hours a week and have no time to think about it, and when you have a mortgage to pay. I've been there. But with hindsight, I should have simply refused to put up with it, long before I did.

More teachers should leave!

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

587 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
57%
You are NOT being unreasonable
43%
coxesorangepippin · 23/01/2024 18:35

Rather than plonk her in the chair and tell her sternly to sit there and do as she's told, the teacher was softly softly saying "you're making red choices, please make green choices" over and over with the girl taking absolutely no notice.

^^

Woke bullshit.

Kids need simple effective language:

Sit down
Don't do that
No
Now!

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Depressedhusbandbringingmedown · 23/01/2024 18:38

coxesorangepippin · 23/01/2024 18:35

Rather than plonk her in the chair and tell her sternly to sit there and do as she's told, the teacher was softly softly saying "you're making red choices, please make green choices" over and over with the girl taking absolutely no notice.

^^

Woke bullshit.

Kids need simple effective language:

Sit down
Don't do that
No
Now!

So relatable. Currently working in a school like this and the only person who believes in it is the Head who, incidentally is not a teaching Head. 😤
Theory and Practice are two different things!

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HarlaEB · 23/01/2024 18:40

Depressedhusbandbringingmedown · 23/01/2024 18:25

I think if ALL of the senior managers in schools were forced to teach at least three days a week, it be would a completely different picture.

Edited

I did that as our budget was so bad.

The hard part is - ‘who does my job?’

Who attends child protection meetings, monitors and evaluates teaching and learning, trains and develops staff, meets with parents, social workers, leads on safeguarding, attends and reports to governors etc etc ….I could go on

In my case my headteacher work started at 4.00pm - unsustainable for me to teach all day, then work till 21.00/22.00 or later everyday.

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ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 23/01/2024 18:41

This is bout the most far out teacher bashing thread I’ve read.

I think most teachers are desperate to leave. And if they had another job they’d go. But they can’t, so they’re stuck. It’s nothing to do with ‘colluding’

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DrCoconut · 23/01/2024 18:41

I lik that the headteacher at my DS's school also teaches and is involved in extra curricular things too. He is less remote and clueless as a result

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JaffavsCookie · 23/01/2024 18:49

I don’t want to leave. I am committed to the kids I teach, to getting them the best exam results they are personally capable of, to enriching their lives with extra curricular stuff and so letting them move on with a wide range of choices.
Does not mean that i signed up for unremitting bad behaviour from a %, nor being bad mouthed by their foul parents.
Please do not suggest I am part of the problem.

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GrammarTeacher · 23/01/2024 18:51

Thanks for the victim blaming. Not what I wanted to read while off with pneumonia and pleurisy picked up at...school. We tried not going in. There was a big strike. Achieved not very much!

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Jifmicroliquid · 23/01/2024 18:57

A lot of newer teachers DO leave. Many don’t reach their fourth year teaching. They leave while still on a lower wage, which they can match somewhere else. It’s the longer term teachers who feel stuck.

The problem is, teaching is one of those professions that you get ‘stuck’ in because you price yourself out. The longer you teach for, the higher up the pay scale you go, and thus become too expensive to move schools. No-one wants to pay for an upper pay scale teacher when they can have an NQT. So teachers find themselves stuck at a school. They struggle to find another job that will match the pay they have moved up to and they can’t afford to drop salary.

Its not always as simple as you might think.

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Zodfa · 23/01/2024 19:00

It seems to be creeping all over society: professionals stymied by micromanagement and regulation, but for the people who just want to be arseholes all the time nobody will stop them. Nonsensical in general, disastrous in education.

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warmheartcoldfeet · 23/01/2024 19:15

So if teachers do as you say and refuse to work in bad conditions, start leaving in their masses, school closures up and down the country - not enough spaces for children - who'll be complaining then?
Parents would be up in arms.
If parents aren't happy about it they are in a better place to protest than the brow beaten teaching staff.

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LakeTiticaca · 23/01/2024 19:23

It's down to the parents to teach their children respect and good behaviour but many of kids actually learn the behaviour from.the parents in the first place.
Then at end of term the badly behaved kids get treated to trips to theme parks etc, and the well-behaved ones get bugger all.
Not much incentive to behave really

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NeedAnUpgrade · 23/01/2024 19:27

There already is a recruitment issue, there’s a shortage of teachers at my DCs school.
There are also a few excellent teachers there who would be missed if they left. I don’t see how you can blame the teachers who carry on doing their best for the students in increasingly difficult circumstances.

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PurpleOrchid42 · 23/01/2024 19:29

I left. I loved it once... then the OFSTED obsession ruined it all.

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HeddaGarbled · 23/01/2024 19:31

The conditions that you describe are not universal.

I’m always sceptical of those media reports that go something like: “80% of teachers/doctors/police officers/underwater-basket-weavers are planning to leave the profession”. They don’t, or not in those sort of proportions.

What they do is look for similar jobs in nicer workplaces.

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Kat200669 · 23/01/2024 19:34

I work in a really tough school in a deprived area. It's wild and I mean wild. Can we get parental support to deal with the behaviour, the violence, the vandalism, removing mobile phones, NO! We have had vacancies in core subjects, pe, maths, English, design and tech, home ec for years. Parental engagement to support the school is non existent. Some of our teachers stay because they know little different and be with us since probation, some simply cannot get a job due to the sheer volume of applications in some schools.i can't even get supply teachers. And that's what I'd be resrted to, no specialist suspect teachers. 3 qualified in my city last year where there are 24 vacancies

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CaptainMyCaptain · 23/01/2024 19:35

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 23/01/2024 17:50

When I went to my grandson's school for a Christmas event there was a little girl being naughty. The teacher wanted her to sit down and stay in her seat but the girl was messing about. Rather than plonk her in the chair and tell her sternly to sit there and do as she's told, the teacher was softly softly saying "you're making red choices, please make green choices" over and over with the girl taking absolutely no notice.

She will have been following the school policy. Clearly it wasn't working.

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donquixotedelamancha · 23/01/2024 19:36

You are quite right. I wore myself to the bone because I didn't want to let the kids down. Now I'm at a functional school it's soooo much better.

The problem is that the government will simply not address the structural problems, no matter how bad it gets. It is always the kids who suffer.

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SisterMichaelsHabit · 23/01/2024 19:38

The teachers who have the wherewithal and skills and dedication and commitment to keep showing up every day to do that job in those schools should have fucking medals and should all be at the top of the pay scale. In fact I think they should create a special TLR allowance for all teachers in difficult schools with serial issues, just like the SEN allowance for SEN school teachers. If they all walked out, those kids would have no one. So many teachers in tough schools burn out fast enough as it is.

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DemBonesDemBones · 23/01/2024 19:39

@VeterinaryCareAssistant I'm sure the teacher knew the child better than you possibly could have after your 10 seconds of observation. You have no idea what the situation was. Thank God for kind and knowledgeable teachers.

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donquixotedelamancha · 23/01/2024 19:45

I’m always sceptical of those media reports that go something like: “80% of teachers/doctors/police officers/underwater-basket-weavers are planning to leave the profession”. They don’t, or not in those sort of proportions.

They have left teaching. Lots of schools just can't fill posts.

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Boomboom22 · 23/01/2024 19:46

It's not the teachers or the teaching. It's society normalising bad behaviour, excuses for everything, parents either don't care / care too much in the wrong way so they don't want their precious child to follow the rules on the low end, threaten to sue the school on the high end.
Parents need to back schools and ofsted / camhs/ social Work also need to back schools and value education.

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NinetyNineRedBalloonsGoBy · 23/01/2024 19:46

coxesorangepippin · 23/01/2024 18:35

Rather than plonk her in the chair and tell her sternly to sit there and do as she's told, the teacher was softly softly saying "you're making red choices, please make green choices" over and over with the girl taking absolutely no notice.

^^

Woke bullshit.

Kids need simple effective language:

Sit down
Don't do that
No
Now!

I mean .. I agree with you but if the teacher had done that then there's be loud parental complaints about her "bullying" little Jonny who's never been told what to do as his parents are "gentle parents".

That kind of woke bullshit parenting is why teachers are leaving in droves.

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Boomboom22 · 23/01/2024 19:48

Also parents complaining over stupid things like their kid feels bad they scored so low. Well, they didn't do any revision and paid no attention in class if they were even in school so what do you expect?

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Naptrappedmummy · 23/01/2024 19:50

The problem begins with parents. Our local Facebook parenting group is rammed full of posts by parents proud of ‘bucking the system’ by refusing to co-operate in bringing up a disciplined, educated, appropriately capable child. They don’t want to do anything that even resembles parenting if it’s remotely challenging, saying the child ‘isn’t ready’ or they don’t want to upset them. Hence we have swathes of 4 year olds starting school in nappies and with a dummy in their mouth, unable to put their own shoes on or even follow an instruction. And when the school want to spend their time teaching rather than changing soiled clothing, the parents refuse to engage and decide to ‘home school’ aka letting them watch Numberblocks all day. Because the teachers were nasty apparently and wouldn’t let little Johnny/Jennifer ‘go at their own pace’.

I commend every teacher dealing with such nonsense. Rather than expecting them to leave their jobs we should be holding parents to account.

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sheflieswithherownwings · 23/01/2024 19:51

HarlaEB · 23/01/2024 18:25

I'm going to turn it back.

Why are parents not campaigning and complaining? Why do they accept poor education provision for their children?

Come on, stand up, complain, protest, vote differently. This is your precious child and their education.

I wonder that too.. I'm honestly amazed at what parents put up with. And I'm one of them. And as there is no collective action from parents about the state of education, parents are left with two options: homeschooling or sending their children to a 'better' (a bit less crap) school. But.. from a parent's point of view sometimes the issues we / our children face are not the same as the issues the teacher's face - though obviously there will be some overlap.

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