To think that preparing for war with Russia is total madness?

[Newbutoldfather]

General Patrick Sanders, our top general, warns troops ‘must be prepared to fight Russia in the battlefield’.

There is increasing acceptance of the idea that we could somehow fight a limited war with Russia. I just don’t believe this.

Leaving aside that our military consists of a toy battleship and an old man with a wooden gun (only slight hyperbole), have people wished nukes away?

I am very curious as to what this war would look like. Are they envisaging that there would be a limited battlefield and a list of allowed weapons and that the loser would shake hands and walk away?

I think we are perilously close to the total annihilation of Homo sapiens (which would happen in a nuclear war). We, meaning the west and, especially, the increasingly jingoistic UK, need to dial back the rhetoric and look for a way to find peace, even if we have to compromise on our principles.

Interested in what people think and whether people do think that AIBU.

Do you think it would be better to not prepare more aggression from Russia?

Without wishing to sound dramatic they are already attacking our elections, our institutions and are unremittingly hostile to our way of life.

They don't respect anything but force, or the potential to use force.

If we did go to war with Russia, Poo-tin will just nuke the lot of us so there's no point in worrying about it, we'll all go together.

As for human extinction, what do humans actually contribute to the planet. It's not like we're orangutans who perpetuate the forest by crapping out seeds. All we do to the planet is destroy it.

Should we have compromised on our principles and made peace with Nazi Germany?

If we don't stand up against Russia then Ukrainian have suffered for nothing.

Has he said this more recently than June 2022?

I just can't even think about it. The minute the UK politicians opened their mouths we were all doomed.

@missmollygreen ,

We are deterring them by arming Ukraine.

Where would uk troops fight Russia? In Ukraine?

And why does the UK feel the need to lead the posturing, other than jingoistic electioneering?

The US, who can actually make a difference, are being far more circumspect in what they are saying.

We’ve been preparing to fight Russia since 1948. Nothing new here.

No it’s essential. Deterrence works. NATO solidarity works. As proven by the Cold War. Putin may be a bastard, but he isn’t a madman. As long as he believes that aggression toward NATO countries will be met by MASSIVELY OVERWHELMING force which will obliterate his armed forces, his economy, his country and himself, he won’t attack.

The only way to deter war is to prepare for it. Russia never attacked anyone during the Cold War when NATO was strong, then Europe cut defense spending to get a “peace dividend”. Cue Russian aggression.

Russia won’t start a war if they think they’re going to get their arse kicked.

@Newbutoldfather

"And why does the UK feel the need to lead the posturing, other than jingoistic electioneering?"

Is the general standing in the election? In your OP you stated he was talking to troops, not to the electorate.

Thats the whole point of NATO, to be prepared to fight. It doesn't mean war is imminent.

^🧐👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

We need to prepare for it. War with russia becomes much more likely if we don’t prepare for it.

Of course, the better thing would have been for the West to arm Ukraine properly two years ago.

You are massively overestimating Russia’s military capabilities. Corruption and theft is endemic in Russian military forces at all levels, hardly anything works and it’s highly likely that most if not all of the strategic nuclear arsenal is non-functional. They’re incapable of maintaining trucks, let along ICBMs. The only thing they have to their advantage is millions of barely trained and poorly equipped conscripts and no regard for the lives of their own men. Ukraine is a meat grinder into which hundreds of thousands of young Russians have been sent to their deaths.

There is an amazing complacency about nukes.

we haven’t used them yet, so deterrence works. Ummm, even it it works for 300 years and then humanity ends, it’s not a great trade. This is an example in psychology of recency or availability bias.

Throughout the Cold War we were very careful about what we said, as were all of NATO.

Schapps, just a few days ago, said war with rivals including Russia and China is likely within 5 years.

It is very different to carefully and quietly prepare for different scenarios, as we always have, than to shout loudly about going to war (and actually totally underfund our military).

I have this horrible feeling that "they" are assuming wars will equal economic upsurge as in olden days.

@puncheur,

Total fantasy.

If Russia launched their strategic nukes, even if 40% fail, the UK will cease to exist. Nukes are old tech now, not state of the art.

We can hit back, and the US might too, but it’s goodnight World, pretty much whatever.

It is that kind of complacency that I think our politicians embrace.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Army recruitment at such low levels they hope to fill the gap with women.

we haven’t used them yet, so deterrence works.

One country has, our ally. The outcome was sufficient to deter any other country from doing so, even at the height of the cold war.

Once Trump wins the election and snuggles back down in bed with Putin then he'll withdraw the US from NATO and Putin will have free reign.

Kabooooom........and we haven't even got a leader anymore 🫣

Trump: Me got my big country back 🥰

Putin: Me got all of Europe 🥰

We're so used to political willy waving that it can be hard to tell if it's more of the same or if we're truly fucked.

If Putin is as ill as rumours suggest then I can quite see him trying to take the world out with him.

I imagine someone close to him would shoot him in the head before he could give the order.

If it does happen though, Id get as close as possible to a big city and cross my fingers that a nuke drops on my head.

What principles would you be willing to compromise?

@peeony,

Well, the UK should first and foremost stop trying to play a leading role. We are a 2nd rate power with our only possible leverage being our expertise in storing dirty money in tax havens.

We are also miles away from Ukraine. The U.S and China and, to a lesser extent, Germany have far more leverage and, you will notice, they are being more circumspect.

Ultimately, and what the U.S are gently pushing towards, ‘we’ will trade some territory for the rump of Ukraine to join NATO. America arms Ukraine enough not to lose, but not enough to win. It isn’t accidental.

Yes we need to prepare for war. peacetime is over, globalisation is failing (and cannot do otherwise as the US is declining to continue at the police of the seas so shipping lanes will be continually disrupted), and we’ve failed to invest properly in our defence for decades.

If you are strong and prepared for war, you don’t have to fight one (usually). The UK is now weak, unable to man its own navy (which for an island nation is shockingly bad), disorganised, bureaucratic, and riddled with a national self hatred that means half the population wouldn’t fight to protect the country anyway.

Oh, and I note that Putin did nothing when Trump was president. He invaded Ukraine on Bidens watch. Oh, and I understand that after years of investigations the Russian collusion allegations/steel dossier have been disproved.