To think that preparing for war with Russia is total madness?

[Newbutoldfather]

General Patrick Sanders, our top general, warns troops ‘must be prepared to fight Russia in the battlefield’.

There is increasing acceptance of the idea that we could somehow fight a limited war with Russia. I just don’t believe this.

Leaving aside that our military consists of a toy battleship and an old man with a wooden gun (only slight hyperbole), have people wished nukes away?

I am very curious as to what this war would look like. Are they envisaging that there would be a limited battlefield and a list of allowed weapons and that the loser would shake hands and walk away?

I think we are perilously close to the total annihilation of Homo sapiens (which would happen in a nuclear war). We, meaning the west and, especially, the increasingly jingoistic UK, need to dial back the rhetoric and look for a way to find peace, even if we have to compromise on our principles.

Interested in what people think and whether people do think that AIBU.

They will have a way out. Don’t be so hysterical. They will have a brokered exit, that’s how all wars end.

The "international community" so often claimed to be against Russia is, in reality, mostly either its ally, trading partner, or indifferent.

The world is used to us joining in Americas wars, but we needn't expect others to flock to help us if we are foolish enough to dive two feet first into war with Russia, China and others better armed and better trained than us. It won't be World War Three.

The UK and US will have to deal with real war on their own turf for the first time since the Blitzkrieg. I think it will be relatively swift and final. Unfortunately for our civilians.

I can see what you are doing, trying to stir up fear. Russia is a depleted non entity with no allies whatsoever. No one is bothered anymore about them.

Not sure of the motives of starting a thread to drum up some ‘sympathy’ for Russia or to feel they are anything but a rag tag army no better than North Korea.

I’m not “hysterical”, just pointing out what’s gone once some posters head.

Also, lay off the misogynistic vocabulary.

Ha! Men can e hysterical too - and often are. Look at Putin.

Funny. This link was on the front page 20 minutes ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-68047454

Do you actually know what “hysterical” means and the etymology of the word?

Zelensky will be known after this as one of the greatest heroes of our time. The man is the very epitome of courage, strength and endurance.

@Newchapterbeckons ,

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

Zelensky has been a Great War leader but he is far from whiter than white. He is also an oligarch with some very shady connections.

You just outed yourself there.
I will never forget what Zelensky has done for the west, and nor should you.

Yes and all those who are there fighting still

I sincerely hope not.

And IMO there is nothing courageous about him. The only reason why he is being upheld as some kind of hero is because of the war, but he’s actually a pretty despicable individual in his own right.

The victims here are the civilians, Putin is off his head, and Zelenskyy is enjoying the whole thing.

It’s incredible the way MN is used sometimes….

@Newchapterbeckons ,

It is incredible how paranoid you are.

You honestly believe that only people with an agenda can wonder if we are pursuing a sensible strategy.

MN is a talking shop. My only agenda is specified in my OP, a concern about people becoming blasé about nukes …

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, then.

Time we stopped funding that bellicose crackhead Zelensky and started on a more peaceful path.

Do you mean Ukraine do as Putin wants and then what’s next?

Putin keeps going somewhere else?

Well, yes if you think that handing over the Donbas would mean an end to this war and a more normalised "Cold War" relationship with Russia but Putin shows zero inclination to negotiate around this, plus, as a sovereign country, its up to the Ukrainians.

Russia isn't finished, its resources are not depleted, it spends 40% of GDP on "defence" is a nuclear power, it has huge amounts of raw materials that India and China buy in foreign currency, both these countries give Russia technology to build advanced weaponry and they can use the US$ to buy whatever it likes, most of our sanctions have had little effect on Russia, mostly hurt us.

I agree with the pp, forcing Russia into a corner is a very bad idea, but that doesn't mean we have to just roll over and let them take Ukraine.

Aside Schapps is an idiot, he knows nothing about defence and is a ministerial journey man, put into numerous cabinet rolls to fire fight as he is considered good in front of a camera.... .... didn't he pre warn the Houthis that a US/UK air strike was imminent, with his "watch this space" comment.

If you want peace, prepare for war. It would be unwise not to be prepared, doesn't mean they're planning on actually going to war.

The problem is we don't have the money (or desire) to spend on defence, the total size of the military is set to fall from its current 100k ish to 73k & thats under the party of defence.

We have few tanks, aircraft and the size of the navy is pathetic.

War with Russia? Who do we think we are?! They're huge and it's a very stupid idea.

I was surprised this morning to read quite how bad things have become with the state of schools. 24, 000 schools beyond their design life. Every school needing on average 300, 000 worth of repairs.

This is where we should be spending our money, instead of on other people's wars and the pet projects of a stream of previous prime ministers. Cold kids, ffs Basics.

www.bbc.com/newsround/68053778

@jasflowers ,

You and others keep saying it is ‘up to Ukraine’. It really isn’t.

Ukraine is totally reliant on NATO (90% + being U.S) arms donations and intelligence sharing. If the U.S changes their mind, Ukraine is a Russian colony within weeks.

It is also scarily reliant on Elon Musk for its communications. He stopped Ukraine attacking Russia’s Black Sea fleet by turning off Starlink in Crimea.

So, ultimately, Zelensky can easily be persuaded to do a deal, which looks like ceding some territory for security guarantees for the rump of Ukraine.

This isn’t a rerun of 1939 because…..well, nukes. But it would also be like Hitler losing 70% of their best troops getting bogged down in Poland for months and then being forced to accept a bit of disputed borderland in return for peace.

It would be crazy taking even a 1% risk of the entire world to fight for outright victory, whatever that might look like….and it won’t be the Union Jack flying atop the Kremlin, as some of our politicians make it sound like.

People on here saying Russia is a spent force, intelligence communities from a range of countries saying Russia are building up their forces for war within 3-5 years.

Who to believe?

Aggressors start wars at the time that suits them. Defenders have no choice.

The UK is not an aggressor.

We have no choice if Russia wishes to start a war, with us or with other countries we’re committed to defend. We could spend all the money in the world on schools. It wouldn’t help us defend ourselves.

If anything, we should be spending less on schools and - especially- the NHS and more on the army, navy and airforce.

@Newbutoldfather Depends if you think its the Wests job to dictate to a sovereign country what land they should give up, doesn't say much for western democracy does it.
How would you enforce a peace deal with Russia? its naive to think Russia wouldn't be back for a 2nd bite, having rearmed plus you would want Ukraine to negotiate from a position of weakness, thats what your post infers... ie running out of weapons.
Anyway Putin wont talk, he knows Trump will be the next POTUS and UA will run out of weapons, they may well do before the election.

Ukraine has done a decent job of keeping the Black Sea fleet in base, hence can still get grain shipments out, that helps us all.