To think karma doesn’t exist?

[Fuckfucketyfuckfuckfuck]

I went through an utterly horrific experience a few years ago. Someone who I trusted and considered a friend was the cause of this. I don’t want to provide the exact scenario as this could be outing but she betrayed me in a horrific way when I was at a very vulnerable point in my life and it blew my life apart. Although I have rebuilded my life, I still think about what happened all the time and obviously I still feel a lot of hurt and anger because of what happened. I still to this day feel Kirby to but red hot visceral hatred towards her. I’m not by nature a person who holds grudges, I have always been quick to forgive and don’t like conflict but what she did was unforgivable. Not once has she reached out to me, to try and explain, apologize or try to make amends. That’s fine as it’s obviously just indicative of the type of person she is but what really sticks in my throat is the fact that it seems her life has gone from strength to strength ever since. New (better) job, new partner, new home, new baby. We live in a small community so all of this stuff gets back to me whether I like it or not. Moving away is unfortunately not an option for us, certainly at the moment. I feel like she’s treated me like garbage and been rewarded for it by karma rather than punished. AIBU to think karma is just a made up concept that people tell themselves to feel better about someone who has treated them badly? That actually, it doesn’t exist, and people like this actually just get to live a normal happy life despite their actions?

Of course karma doesn't exist.

I find it weird that anyone fixates on individuals who've done them wrong as evidence one way or the other. Petty beefs are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. You'd think if karma existed, it would focus more on war-mongerers, political oppressors and the like.

So if Karma is payback for the wrong you’ve done to someone, then what despicable and unforgivable atrocity have you committed?

Because you can’t have it both ways. Either Karma is payback for previous wrongs, in which case if you’ve been wronged then it was karma for something you did to someone, or it’s just a fact that good and bad things happen to all of us, and sometimes it just so happens that bad things happen to bad people.

Also, we need to be careful that wishing Karma on someone doesn’t turn you into the kind of horrible person you’re wishing it on.

It’s one thing to be glad someone finally got fired from a job where they have bullied staff, and can no longer get away with it.

But to e.g. wish death, serious illness, loss of a loved one on people makes the wisher just as much if not more of a despicable person than the person they’re wishing it on.

I remember once there was a thread on here where posters were talking about the things which had happened to their ex’s and one poster came on to positively gloat that her ex and his GF had suffered a stillbirth and several miscarriages. Fortunately the post was deleted pretty sharpish, although she did post subsequent, equally vile posts. But reading through that my immediate thinking was that perhaps there was a valid reason why he’d left her after all, and that she was the vile person, not him.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

I do believe in karma, but you can’t sit and watch it.

from the outside she may be going from strength to strength but you don’t know what’s happening for her behind closed doors.

forgiveness is not something you give to someone who hurt you, it’s a gift you give yourself to release the wrong you are holding.

focus your energy on healing, perhaps seek professional help- many people don’t realise the grief that goes with an experience like this, it often gets shoved in a corner as you deal with the crisis and fixing the practicalities.

maybe one day you will hear something awful happened to her- if you feel sorry for her, you know you’ve healed, if not you still have some work to do to let yourself move on.

@Iamasentientoctopus I’m so sorry, that’s heartbreaking to hear. I hope things change for the better for you soon. And this is my point exactly. How can karma exist if it allows poor innocent children to suffer like this? How can that be the universe righting a wrong?

It isn't, but that's not what karma is.

I've been following Hindu teachings for many years. Yes, it is absolutely, utterly heartbreaking when children suffer. However, according to these teachings, babies do not arrive into this world with a blank slate. They carry with them all the personality traits, gifts, talents, good and bad tendencies resulting from what they have done in many previous lives. Every good or bad action results in good or bad fruits further down the line, either in this life or in future ones. We all carry the seeds of our positive or negative past actions done mentally, physically, or emotionally which will germinate at some time. And we can create better futures for ourselves by our good actions, which is, for me, a very empowering notion.

Firstly, you're not unreasonable for feeling angry, but there is a certain liberation that comes from being able to let go of these situations and perhaps therapy will help you to do that.

You also would be wise to realise that whilst she's got all these things life is not linear for many people. What she gains, she can lose quite easily. I do believe in Karma but I believe that it comes in its own time.

What you need to understand at the moment is that you are holding onto hatred right now and the only person it's hurting is you. You are likely going to be nothing to do with any negative experiences she goes through in the future, it's not going to be your job to dole out Karma and that unfortunately means you won't get the satisfaction of seeing it dished out.

Work on moving on, which is so much easier said that done I know. I really really do know.

OP what sort of karma would you wish on them? if this person was diagnosed with incurable cancer would you be jumping up and down with joy? Or something happened to their child?

I know it’s hard. Way back in my early working life a colleague played a nasty trick on me that never backfired on them in any way - the opposite in fact. They never apologised and continued to deny even when I challenged them. It was all very childish in retrospect.

But I have moved on. I know it’s a cliche but it’s true. Grudges harm no one other than those who hold them.

I don't believe in karma. One of my uncles (through marriage thank god) is one of the nastiest, evil men you could ever meet yet despite a cancer scare, he still comes up smelling of roses. My DF who was his best friend was an alcoholic for most of his life and died approx 50 years old, but was the total opposite, e.g. nicest man ever, compared to my uncle.

I wonder if some of the misunderstanding about the concept of karma comes from the fact that Western belief systems tend to be based on the premise of an external power delivering justice while Eastern ones are more about cohesion as one whole being in the universe? Even if you're not religious, that kind of thing will have an influence.

Certainly I think a very different worldview, cultural background and local history will affect all that, NonPlayer. Plus how people have translated/explained 'karma' as an idea, let alone Hinduism/Buddhism.

That said, I find there are some internal contradictions within 'karma' that I've not found adequately explained (mostly to do with the tension between Buddhist nonbelief in a soul and 'rebirth'). So I can't claim to fully understand it myself! My own interpretation of 'karma' is probably along the lines of 'cause and effect'.

@Fuckfucketyfuckfuckfuck I'm a BIG believer in karma, and the best thing about it is that you never know when karma will strike.

Hence the expression "Karma is a dish best served cold" e.g. just when you think all is good in the world, karma hits.

So just fucketyfuck this friend, stop thinking about her life, and enjoy your own. One day karma will strike. She will get what she deserves.

Hence the expression "Karma is a dish best served cold" e.g. just when you think all is good in the world, karma hits.

That's 'revenge is a dish best served cold'. And has absolutely nothing to do with karma, would in fact be almost the opposite meaning!

Yes, it isn't entirely unproblematic even as it really is. Not many human belief systems are! But it definitely isn't how many people in the West understand it; it's not "this person did a bad thing so they will get punished". As PPs have pointed out, this comes with its own issues: how does one know this person isn't delivering your cosmic justice, does that mean people who do evil things are actually agents of justice, is one a bad person for wishing ill on them and taking pleasure in their suffering, does this mean some children deserve to get cancer, and so on.

To be honest, I think even in Western religions, most people are coming round to a different interpretation of their ancient texts and teachings these days.

As @ArabellaScott said, it's actually revenge that's supposed to be served cold, and revenge is pretty much the opposite of karma. But there's also another saying: Before you embark on a journey of revenge, first dig two graves.

Karma is just natures way of getting revenge, that's all.

No, it isn't.

You're geting your sayings mixed up. The 'Revenge is a dish best served cold' is an old Afghan saying, nothing to do with Karma.

I don't believe in karma.

I do believe that humans are innately selfish, so we tend to things from our perspective rather than seeing the bigger picture. I don't think there are good people, or evil people. Just people that have had more luck, or shed loads of trauma. We don't live happily ever after.

Just try to be the best version of yourself, distance yourself from negative energy, hold firm boundaries and treat others how you wish to be treated ect.

Any understanding of karma as some sort of vengeful force has missed the point of it.

It's worth reading up on. It's not entirely unproblematic (is any human belief system?) but it is very interesting.

@KimberleyClark truthfully, I’m not sure. As I said in one of my previous posts, a part of me wouldn’t feel sad if she suffered a slow painful death. The other (wiser) part of me would hate for her child to grow up without a mother. It’s not her child’s fault that she is the monster that she is. I also thought perhaps it would be satisfying to see her marriage fall apart or for her to lose her job, but both of those things would negatively impact an innocent child. My desire for karma (if it exists) to do it’s job has remained however the types of scenarios I would wish on her have changed somewhat since I found out she had become a mother. I don’t hate her any less, but I don’t want to be as bad a person as she is.

I wouldn't wish a slow painful death on my worst enemy.

I think a pp is right, if people aren't happy with their lives they should attribute their present situation to the evil they must have done to others in a previous life.

a part of me wouldn’t feel sad if she suffered a slow painful death...I also thought perhaps it would be satisfying to see her marriage fall apart or for her to lose her job

I don't think I hate anyone this much. But even if it did happen, your wishing it wouldn't have caused it.

But as a PP said, you shouldn't dismiss an entire teaching because it failed to deliver a divorce or nasty death on someone who you think deserved it for wronging you. Especially since karma absolutely is not about anyone you hate being visited with whatever you wish on them.

So if karma is the response to the bad someone has done in their life, then presumably everyone who meets a horrible end, who has a shit life, who has something bad done to them is because of karma.

So OP by that definition you’re a horrible person?

The victims of the most atrocious crimes in the world must have done terrible things to deserve their fate?

People born with or acquiring disabilities/serious illnesses and so the list goes on.

In fact given that argument tit’s unlikely that there is a single person in the world who hasn’t had something horrible happen in their life. So the conclusion would be that the human race is just awful.

Except we don’t know anything about what people have done.

And even if they had done bad things somewhere down the track, did they deserve to be murdered? Fall seriously ill? Lose their homes or loved ones etc?

This idea of karma being some kind of meeting out of justice to someone who has wronged you is a pretty toxic one.

And being hopeful that someone would die a slow painful death is pretty despicable. So what karma do you think will befall you for having such vile thoughts?

This is why this definition of karma is just unrealistic and categorically untrue.

People do good things and people do bad things.

And sometimes good things happen to good people, and bad things happen to good people. And good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to bad people.

And reality is that no-one is all good or all bad.

Even some of the most notorious criminals/dictators have done at least some good in their lives.

Harold shipman is one of the most notorious murderers of our time. He was a despicable individual whose crimes are unspeakable. But as a doctor he will have saved lives. It’s not palatable to think it but it’s true.

We can see all the bad that is in someone. Harold Shipman, Adolf Hitler, Robert Mugabe, If Hitler and Mugabe hadn’t become so corrupted by power they would be remembered for gaining Zimbabwe independence and transforming the German economy respectively. But their later crimes overshadowed the positives they achieved in their former years.

It’s all just far too complicated to think good and bad and never the two shall meet. Because unfortunately they often do.

The religious doctrine of kamma/karma talks about these things playing out over several lifetimes.