To think people are too quick to say LTB?

[Scotcheggsontoast]

Talking about in real life as well as online.

Don't get me wrong I know it's often the right thing to do.

But I think it's very easy to get swept up in the whole, you don't need him, life will be so much better without him etc etc..

But do you know what the grass isn't always greener, and when 3/4 years down the line you're still single, having to stay in every night as you're a single parent, friends are all busy in their own lives, ones that were very present in your life encouraging you to LTB have all but disappeared..

I know it's everyone's responsibility to make their own decisions, but especially when someone is at a vulnerable point in their lives (ie. just had a baby, in lockdown, etc etc) I think people should be a bit more careful about giving out all this advice about how you're life will be so much better without your partner.

It does seem to me that quite often someone on here will post a relatively minor complaint (often it’s something like “DH refuses to do his share of the washing up”) and inevitably among the first few replies will be someone saying “LTB”.

Now I get that minor issues are often a sign of deeper problems, but I always think really?!!! You’re really telling this woman to immediately break up with this man over this minor niggle, rather than try and resolve things?

It's never just about leaving their socks on the floor though, is it?

Usually when someone has got to the point of posting about it on here, leaving their socks on the floor is almost always the last straw and just yet another thing that the OP feels disrespected for and many, many more examples almost always come out on the thread.

Or they've talked about it many times already and nothing changes.

This! Too many women settle for complete pricks and hope that they will improve. They never do.

We need to make it more acceptable to be single, so that some relationships never get to any stage beyond a few dates. How to improve self-esteem in other words.

You wouldn't have to 'LTB" if you were not with him to begin with.

I agree that some threads can jump quickly to "LTB" for a problem that could be resolved with talking, compromising, counselling etc. Especially when there are very young DC involved - I think many (most?) relationships go through a tricky patch when you have young DC and are knackered.

However, I also think that a lot of people stay in terrible relationships for far too long because of a fear of being alone, not wanting to disrupt the kids' lives, money worries etc. So I think in a way the "LTB" comments are important, to remind these people that leaving is an option and no one needs to be in an awful relationship.

I agree

Obviously in cases of abuse etc yes I agree with LTB

But if a partner is 95% perfect and it’s just one thing like lack of sex (I read this a lot on here) the LTB might not always be best

(Was thinking about this this morning after seeing that a public figure who has been very vocal about the positivity of her divorce has revealed a handsome new Boyfriend….. I guess it’s pretty easy to be positive about divorce if you’re in the first flushes of new romance with a tasty new man….. But plenty of women will be stuck on their own without so much as an admiring glance, doing 90% or more of the childcare)

Yes I think you're right OP. Things are not always black and white and it's easy for people to say leave. In my group of friends one of the women is quite judgey about one of the others' relationship but she herself has confided things are not good with her DH despite all the Facebook and Instagram posts suggesting the alternative. I feel like some people make out they have perfect relationships but they don't.

The trouble is with a forum like Mumsnet is you get advice from people who are invested in the issue you have. So the advice isn't impartial. There are certain posters who pop up straight away on LTB threads. There was a long thread recently ( a few weeks back) I can provide the link if anyone wants it where the wife slept with someone on a work trip. The overwhelming advice ( one poster counted them) 75% advised the OP not to tell and carry on as normal.
My point is that people are invested in others choosing to do what they have done because it validates their own choice. If a woman is unfaithful there will be many supportive posts from posters who have had experience of being unfaithful themselves.
It applies to all advice on here. Posters are attracted to threads that reflect their own experiences and they want others to behave in the way they have done. If they have LTB, they want others to do the same. If they have been unfaithful and haven't told their partner, they want others to do the same. Few posters are impartial.

The thing is though, what can be done to resolve it? Usually these men don't want to change. That's why people are posting about it.

Absolutely this.

We don't live in a society where men see value in changing/compromise or working hard at their relationships. The bare minimum is praised. As long as he earns what more does the unreasonable woman want 🙄 We see men refuse to go to counselling. We see this belief of if you love me you should just accept me as I am bullshit.

Typically once women are posting on here they have been trying to single handedly save their relationship for years. So LTB is the only course of action or put up with the shit. Personally I think life's too short and if there is kids involved it's not healthy for them to see.

I think if men took more responsibility and accountability then maybe there would be less ltb being said. But Typically we only see post divorce oh she was a crazy unreasonable ex or suddenly when it's too late they regret not changing yet still incapable of the change even then.

Related to this is the number of people on here who are incredibly quick to leap to the conclusion that the DH is being unfaithful. Someone only has to post something innocuous like “DH was late home from work” for there to be a phalanx of “he’s DEFINITELY cheating. Don’t be a mug. Talk to a lawyer. Ducks in a row etc.”
Obviously sometimes the bloke is cheating, but often after 20 pages of people telling her to leave the unfaithful bastard the OP will pop up and sheepishly say oh it was entirely innocent.

I also think the financial hit is down played in LTB responses. It's not just as simple as suddenly single = situation improves in every way. As pp said, the new logistics and financial impacts are massive. MASSIVE! Certainly this is the case when kids are involved. The reality is many people stay together because they cannot afford to split up.

I just don’t think immediately going for the nuclear option is helpful advice really.

Yes yes yes yes, a thousand times yes!

I agree that some threads can jump quickly to "LTB" for a problem that could be resolved with talking, compromising, counselling etc. Especially when there are very young DC involved - I think many (most?) relationships go through a tricky patch when you have young DC and are knackered.

I disagree. I think people behave the way they do mostly because they are who they are. Just because a partner was apparently nice before having dc when everything was easy, that doesn't mean that their current selfishness is out of character. More likely they were always selfish, but it didn't become apparent until they needed to step up and do their bit. Equally, some men's misogyny doesn't show until their female partner is in a position of vulnerability or their roles have shifted due to having children.

These things probably can't be fixed through counselling, because they are down to deep-seated attitudes the man always had, and have been cemented into the relationship. And in many cases it suits the man for the relationship to work like that, so where is the motivation to make long-lasting change?

i've been married 22 years this year and there have been many times that mumsnet would've told me to LTB. I love him dearly but he is hard work. Marriage is hard work, it's not happiness every single day but the good outweighs the bad and the alternative of living without him is unthinkable

Being single is fine but equally ending a relationship where children are involved isn’t really to be encouraged except in cases of abuse IMO.

It might solve one lot of issues when you LTB, but yes it often brings a whole load of new ones. It's easy on reflection to think I should have just stayed as I was. Better the devil you know. But its not really the answer.

Any kind of DV then yes you have to get out. No question. For me personally cheating is another. I know some people work through it but anyone I know who has, it's never the same as it was as the trust isn't there.

Anything else yes potentially could be worked on. Depends how willing the other person is! It takes 2 to fix any problems and most LTB posts I see in this category, is because the other person isn't willing to address the issues or compromise in any way. The OP has usually tried everything before turning to MN.

I disagree. I think modelling unequal relationships to children can be damaging. If a husband is lazy round the house and lets his wife do all the "wife work" this will be modelled to the children, it's a vicious cycle. Also modelling unhappy relationships can be damaging. I don't think that it's something that should necessarily be done lightly, but loads of children have separated parents nowadays so it's hardly uncommon. They aren't all damaged beyond repair.

For me, if marriage felt like hard work, I'd think I had married the wrong person. Obviously neither dh nor I are perfect, but marriage has never felt like hard work. In choosing a life partner, you are also choosing what kind of life you are going to have (although unforeseeable things can obviously change that). Imo love on its own is not enough. I would not have knowingly got into a ltr with someone who had characteristics, lifestyle or family that would make my life difficult. Overlooking red flags early in a relationship can be disastrous.

I couldn't disagree more.

Modelling a happy and respectful relationship to children is important. I don't think it is good for children to see a man refusing to parent, refusing to cook etc because they will think that's how relationships should be and continue the cycle as they grow.

Happiness is also important, it isn't going to be a nice household to live in for children if one or both parents are miserable.

We need to change the general mantra that being in a relationship, any relationship is preferable to being single.

What utter bollocks. This is a myth I suspect created by the patriarchy since women are proven to live longer if single whilst men the opposite.

A good partner, of course is beneficial to your life, but if they're negative, I wouldn't hesitate to swap them out for another dog. Much better company 😆

Thanks for your responses most very helpful.

Am just finding things hard at the mo. One friend in particular who I was close with and was there for me when me and Ex were having issues (and often encouraging me that things don't need to be like that / it should be better etc) and now she has basically disappeared.

Another old friend I text last week casually mentioning shall we get a coffee one day, and she's basically told me she's too busy and not available. Totally understandable I get it, but it was quite blunt and has made me feel like a burden on everyone.

Deep down I know it was not a good relationship in the end, but there were good bits.

And having long lonely weekends is not easy. I do exercise, take DS to clubs, make arrangements with friends most the time, all those things you're supposed to do. It gets tiring having to constantly make plans with people. Most of the time I'm fine, but sometimes not.

I miss just having someone there, you could just chill with or see where the weekend takes you.

Yes it's probably better being single most of the time over a bad relationship, but that doesn't make it easy

Also the hope has gone now, after being on quite a few dates where I didn't fancy them / they didn't fancy me etc etc, the logistical reality of dating as a single parent. That I'll find 'the one'.

I feel like everyone else is coupled up (most ppl I know are) and I'm the sad lonely one who people probably either feel sorry for or obligated to see.

How do other people cope / actively enjoy being single - suggestions very welcome please!!!

As someone who is older (60’s) my take on it is that if there is abuse of any kind then it is better to leave because your children will be affected by that long term.

Affairs- I am not so sure now I’m older. If you asked me this at 30 I would have said instant LTB. Now, I don’t know. I don’t think it’s always crime of the century and so many people have them, perhaps it is completely unrealistic for one person to meet all needs of another all their lifetime. I’d actually be an advocate of more open/polyamorous relationships agreed at outset now I think. Why does fidelity matter so much to humans? Has it just been totally ingrained into us like marriage and having kids is.