To have told the lady off in the bed opposite; hospital stay

[Celticliving]

Hi All

I'm very poorly with asthma and lung infection at the moment and have been in hospital since Sunday.

The poor old lady opposite me has dementia and has been chanting/shouting very loudly the whole time I have been here. It's not bothered me at all, though obviously its difficult to rest - she can't help it though.

Another lady was admitted to the bed next to her yesterday morning. Since then, all she has done is shout "oh, shut up," "FFS" etc. She even asked the nurse how long she has to put up with 'that bloody screaming' for.

She's just walked past my bed, tutting and rolling her eyes.

I said "you know she can't help it right!". Reply; 'Whatever'.

I said "You know that might be you one day". Reply; I don't think so.

She's not even hiding these comments and the poor lady's family are looking pretty upset.

I once had similar with an elderly woman in the bed opposite who believed that she and her mother were on holiday and staying in a hotel. She would shout that the service had become unacceptable since her last visit, and would demand that the nurses fetch her luggage as she wasn't staying.

Treating any medical condition in a patient with dementia is resulting in bed blocking though.

Say the elderly lady has a heart murmur, they will medicate it and keep her alive with zero quality of life, lack of dignity and endless amounts of distress and confusion and for what? Because as a nation for some reason we have to prevent death in every single case, when in situations like dementia it isnt in the persons best interest. I wouldn’t want to be kept alive with such a horrible illness. We need to focus on quality end of life and palliative care in these cases, not relentlessly over medicating and prolonging the persons suffering.

You can’t just kill off people with dementia and the elderly. Of course people want the best care for their relatives, even those in their 90s. To not treat treatable ailments would be abuse. It is slightly worrying that you seem to be working with these vulnerable people with your views and I wouldn’t want you looking after my elderly relatives.

One of the women with dementia while I was in hospital last year, wasn’t noisy but she was constantly up and down, trying to wander off out of the ward and touching - or trying to take - other patients’ possessions. As a result, she had to have a HCA with her, one to one, for at least 16 hours a day.

They were very good and patient with her, but I felt very sorry for the nurses in general, having to cope with this, and for the NHS in general - for the added cost-requirement of staff to cope with dementia.

Before COVID I used to knit ‘twiddle muffs’ for patients with dementia for my local hospital - to keep their hands busy. I mostly knit now for a charity that supplies therapy items to children’s therapists (always a massive demand) but I have a mass of oddments to use up - must ask the hospital whether they still want them.

It's just part of ward life sadly. I was lucky in that the lady with dementia on my ward was really placid and quiet. She got really, really upset when they had to move her to the Covid ward, as we were her friends who talked to her and I helped her feed herself sometimes when the nurses were too busy etc. Then we promised to visit her but the nurses wouldn't allow it. We never saw her again : (
I'm still in contact with a couple of ladies from the ward, we made quite good friends, you bond quite a lot if you are lucky when in hospital, but if you have a horrible ward mate it can ruin your stay. I was in for 5 weeks so saw quite a few people come and go.
One younger lady was really, really hyper. She would not stop talking, moving about, jabbering away on her phone, arguing with her ex, whittering on to us about her kids etc etc. She was really nice but just so annoying. I was delighted to see the back of her.

It absolutely would not be abuse at all. And it’s not about killing off the elderly or those with dementia.
That’s why DNR’s, end of life care, palliative care all exist.
Nursing homes with facilities to provide comfort, dignity and care at the natural end of life would relieve the NHS significantly and allow people to actually die with dignity.

😂😂

The other patient might have very good reasons for not being able to tolerate the current conditions.

your anger and frustration should be directed at the hospital, not at the other patient. The dementia patient deserves privacy. You all deserve peace and quiet. You are all being failed.

This

I hope to god that in the future, if I’m the old lady who doesn’t know what day it is or who my family are, some do-gooder doesn’t see fit to keep me alive at all costs.

What because I care enough to see the suffering these patients go through every day due to being kept alive past natural expiration? Do you feel it is right to keep people alive just because we can? I do not think it is morally right to be crushing the chest of a 90 odd year old during resus because they have been guilted by their family member not to sign the DNR. I would argue that I probably care too much about my patients to be honest

@spanishviola , it’s not a question of ‘killing off’, just of not ‘striving to keep alive’ when the quality of life is already very poor. I have seen far too much of late stage dementia (in two relatives) and I actually think it’s verging on cruelty to actively prolong life in such cases. Especially when you know that the person’s former self would be utterly appalled at the state they were in - doubly incontinent etc. - and would say, ‘For God’s sake just let me go!’

As for DNR, I.e. resus after a heart attack, it can be brutal in the elderly - very painful cracked or broken ribs. A neighbour in his 80s who was resuscitated after a 2nd or 3rd heart attack, told me the after effects were so painful, he wished they’d just let him die. He did in any case die just a very few months later anyway.

The hospital should put this lady in a single room. It is not on that she is disturbing other patients.

Exactly. I've done a (online, very easy to do) living will which basically states I don't want any treatment beyond pain relief if I have dementia
Having seen what my Nan, my mum and now my uncle went through I feel very strongly about it

My mum had a chest infection then got sepsis (due to no antibiotics because of her dementia)
I sat watching her die like - this is ridiculous, she's dying, she won't recover, if we did this to an animal it would be cruelty. I'm not saying kill off everyone with dementia but a lethal injection for her rather than watching her dying over days would have been much kinder
And if she had the option I know she would have taken assisted suicide the day she was diagnosed

My dad cared for her and he has already said if he receives a dementia diagnosis he intends to take his own life

My mum did the exact same thing after witnessing my grandad.

Poor man had aspiration pneumonia and contracted sepsis. He couldn’t talk or even swallow at the end, he’d suffered enough, no one wanted to see his suffering prolonged

You do know that many older patients would have trouble using headphones and earplugs.

I agree with this.

Well done OP, telling off a patient who is ill enough to be in hospital and cranky because they are distressed about being unable to get any rest is very virtuous. You should be very satisfied with yourself.

I'm not the poster you're replying to but why would older patients have trouble using headphones and earplugs?

Why aren't there designated dementia wards in hospitals??

Charming

@spanishviola It's not about killing off the elderly, it's about having conversations about not prolonging life when the quality of life is very deteriorated.

An example of this was my grandma who did not have dementia but could not eat, walk, read, talk or lift her head towards the end. It was only after a few bouts of antibiotics that the discussion was had- should she be allowed to go 'naturally' (which might mean getting pneumonia and dying, or having a heart attack and not being resuscitated) or was that more cruel. She wanted to die by then anyway!

It's about not prolonging death unnecessarily, not killing all the oldies off. If you leap in with antibiotics, do surgeries, put them on ventilators, do resuscitation when they are very elderly they often live just to die again, including with dementia, it's horrific. I must make a living will myself.

Because they'd put them in their mouths. Believe me

@Fluffywhitecloudsinthesky exactly. I also come across a lot of people in their 70/80s who want cancer treatment despite it not being curative. They may only have 6 months and spend that 6 months feeling crap from the chemo and not being able to enjoy their time, I know what I would rather have, my symptoms controlled and able to enjoy my last days. We need to start being more realistic about death in this country, we saw how it was during covid not one death was acceptable

Oh your poor father, bless him. Parkinson's disease, and dyskinesia in particular are dreadful, and I really feel for him. I have tardive dyskinesia which is a drug induced movement disorder so kind of the opposite in some ways to Parkinson's, but i do fully empathise. Since having my TD, I have had varying degrees of sympathy and for someone to be very unkind and lacking in compassion really doesn't help me when I feel a lack of control over my body enough as it is.

You sound very kind and understanding, your dad is very lucky to have you. Once, my DM said I was "making an odd face" to my dad over the phone. 😳😖 I obviously couldn't help what expression my face was contorted into, and her comment really didn't help.😞

It's good too that those on the ward were kind and understanding for your dad, that must have made it slightly easier ❤️