To think the terms "neuro diverse" and "neuro typical" will be short lived.

[theplatformedge]

Diversity means "a range of many people or things that are very different from each other" (Oxford learner's dictionary), so the idea that a minority of people are "neuro diverse" and everyone else is "neuro typical" is not only semantically illogical, but also potentially offensive.

We're all different. Some people have traits that make life more difficult for them than others, whether it be ASD, ADHD or a range of other conditions, with spectrums of severity. Telling people that you're neuro-diverse is so vague as to be meaningless, and telling other people they are nero-typical when you have no idea what they're feeling inside is insensitive. Some people get a formal diagnosis for their symptoms, some people self-diagnose and others don't recognise it in themselves. Nobody knows how many people are living with these traits across the population, but the massive increase in diagnostics suggests they're a lot more common than anyone ever thought in the past, and therefore gradually becoming very "typical".

Discuss! 🙂

i know how diagnosis is made thanks. both myself and my kids have been through it on and off over the last 10 years.. so i've seen how the process has evolved.

@SpeedyDrama There’s no mild about it, and to suggest a person with autism who may currently be managing in day to day life is any less autistic than those who are non verbal and lack the ability to self care is utterly offensive.
This makes no sense. Of course they are "less autistic" (assuming they are in fact autistic). It's no different from my saying I have mild eczema and my daughter has mild hay fever. Yes, I have eczema and my DD had hayfever, but putting the mild is not wrong, and frankly makes it more accurate. If those at the milder end insist on being part of autism, then they need to accept it will need to be described as mild.

@Singleandproud the models of neurodiverty i have seen include 'aquired neurodiversity' which cover trauma/attachment etc.

I think that a lot of people see it as shorthand for asd or adhd and maybe at a push dyslexia.

No, you're wrong. Research into how brain scans can be used to diagnose conditions such as ASD is still ongoing but results are varied and inconsistent. Some studies have made great claims about identifying structural differences in the brain but these differences aren't consistent enough across populations with ASD to suggest it can be used as the primary method for diagnosis. This is why behavioural assessments are still considered the gold standard for diagnosis.

@Spendonsend I also see it as shorthand for Aspergers, and think dyslexia is included to try and get away from it being shorthand for Aspergers. Weird because dyslexia and Aspergers are totally different and the former does not really impinge on others like Aspergers' can

Peiole can describe themselves and their disabilities however they want but my son is severely disabled by his autism he can't speak at all.will never be independent and will need 1:1_care for the rest of his life describing him as Neuro Diverse doesn't really cut it

WRONG.

my son is verbal, intelligent. But he still requires full time supervision/care, he cannot feed himself, but he can shower. He cannot travel alone, but he can dress. He has no sense of temperature, hunger, if he's tired or not, he doesn't sleep. He would wet himself without prompting to visit the bathroom, starve himself without food being provided.. .but he can challenge you to a very intelligent conversation about the stuff that interests him.

I 'function' on the surface, but i can't hold down a job, have crippling anxiety, and fail to look after my self properly because my available mental space is taken up with taking care of my house/kids.

Autism isn't a line, there is no less/more autistic. Its a wheel, and each person is affected by varying degrees by each different symptom, and each person therefore, cannot have their level of autism quantified in 'less or more' in terms of autism, and is unique.

By dumbing it down to less/more you completely deny the person the reality of what their autism is and how it affects them.

People who believe in less/more are talking about how it impacts THEM, not the person with autism.

@MNHQ

@LewishamMumNow post is a perfect example of the ableism many autistic people face every day. It is one of the most offensive things I have read on this thread so far.

how dare someone try to define why someone else’s disability is mild or not. How fucking dare they!

Someone posted a video on fb recently, stating that anyone with neanderthal dna was likely to be autistic and that was the reason that neanderthals died out, because neurotypical humans are "better".

To say I was fucking raging was an understatement.

I prefer the term neurospicy myself 🤣
My kids are diagnosed autistic but I'm as neurotypical as they come 🤷‍♀️ but we all have a spicy personality 🤷‍♀️

Well the oracle has spoken. Is there anything else I NEED to do?

There is no “milder end of the spectrum” and it’s offensive to suggest there is. Autism causes impairments no matter how it affects you. People are affected in different ways, and some have intellectual disabilities while others don’t. But not having an intellectual disability doesn’t mean the disability you do have is “mild”.

Also people don’t “insist” on being part of autism. They have been diagnosed with autism by a qualified specialist doctor, they aren’t insisting on anything. And the specialist medical authorities have decided that both those with low and high support needs all come under the same umbrella of autism - this is not a decision that has been made by autistic people.

An answer most won't like but I agree with you. I wish we could honestly have these conversations but as you can see from the thread it cuts so close to home that people feel attacked just by a discussion.

Thank you OP. I think this will be a very interesting thead and it was annoying having posters jumping on your use of 'discuss'. I remember it being used at A level as well.

because people who are NOT autistic or otherwise neurodiverse do NOT get a say in what language we use to describe ourselves.

If you saw me walking with my cane and i told you i was mobility impaired, would you tell me that i wasn't allowed to use that to refer to myself?

Autism isn’t comparable to hay fever ffs. If you want it in ‘simpler’ terms, autism in a more severe form would see impaired intelligence. Autism as one would see as ‘milder’ means a person does have ‘intellectual ability’. What people see as intelligence is usually in academic terms, not intelligence in day to day functioning and this is where many people who are labelled ‘mild’ or ‘high functioning’ are severely let down, especially considering that autism gets more difficult to manage as one gets older.

A person with severe autism will be treated medically and socially as such from
diagnosis. A person with ‘Asperger’s’ will be treated as someone who has shown capability, so will be expected to ‘train’ themselves to mask, fit in, get on with it. As they get older, leave school, join the ‘real world’ - that’s when the idea of a spectrum falls apart. Thats when self care disabilities become most apparent, whether is hygiene of themselves or their homes, paying bills, keeping jobs, ability to socialise, being taken advantage of by peers or in relationships - this is when the vulnerabilities of a ‘high functioning autistic’ becomes most apparent. It’s also at this point the rest of society judges them most, ‘but you got through school/university, why are you now not coping??’. By middle age, many ‘high functioning’ autistic people have had a mental health breakdown. I know many ‘HF’ autistic people who have either never moved out, or didn’t cope well when they did and now live back home and unable to work despite having intellectual abilities.

@YuleDragon because people who are NOT autistic or otherwise neurodiverse do NOT get a say in what language we use to describe ourselves

But my DB (and anyone severely autistic) does not understand this language, so their representatives are either their family or carers/professionals. Only both of these are excluded by people with much much milder problems saying they "self define" as having the same disability and no one can challenge them.

I think it's a shame to delete posts in order to 'sanitise' a discussion. How can we discuss anything, and come to compromises and understandings if people are silenced when others don't agree?

I agree with the opinion that "neurodiverse" is waffly and imprecise. We are all neurodiverse to some degree. In Swedish the newest modern term for what we when I was young called "handicapped people" could translate roughly to "variably abled" - I had a lively discussion at work with a colleague once about this term, because she felt it was the proper and polite one to use and I felt it's so bland it's meaningless. I'm variably abled because I wear glasses, I mean. It's not through blanding down words and phrases that people with disabilites are going to get their needs med and be included in society. It doesn't make ramps for the trains, I mean.

@SpeedyDrama But the different problems experienced are a good reason for the Aspergers/Autism distinction, albeit both conditions would still have milder, moderate and more severe sufferers. That's a fact with every condition.

No, we aren't.

You are NOT ND if you do not have Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, or Dyscalculia. (tourettes and ocd are also found under the nd umbrella)

It is a specific term used to describe the neurological differences that cause those conditions.

I sincerely hope this thread is kept open and perhaps the moderators can look at how posters like this are attempting to police discussions on this subject.

Of course discriminatory posts should be removed but it should not be acceptable for posters to attempt to prevent sensible discussion through using insults and accusing posters of all sorts of prejudice.

What a load of self involved nonsense. We’re not all on a spectrum and the fact that you’ve actually compared disability to wearing glasses is just embarrassing. Ignorant waffle, your whole post.

Sounds like you have an issue with these new terms. I find them helpful as do others. I don't think they will be short-lived at all because to me, they help to describe these neurological characteristics accurately. In turn they will hopefully provide more clarity to those who live with this type of brain wiring, and also for the people who are neurotypical in their brain chemistry. It helps to provide more clarity.