To think the terms "neuro diverse" and "neuro typical" will be short lived.

[theplatformedge]

Diversity means "a range of many people or things that are very different from each other" (Oxford learner's dictionary), so the idea that a minority of people are "neuro diverse" and everyone else is "neuro typical" is not only semantically illogical, but also potentially offensive.

We're all different. Some people have traits that make life more difficult for them than others, whether it be ASD, ADHD or a range of other conditions, with spectrums of severity. Telling people that you're neuro-diverse is so vague as to be meaningless, and telling other people they are nero-typical when you have no idea what they're feeling inside is insensitive. Some people get a formal diagnosis for their symptoms, some people self-diagnose and others don't recognise it in themselves. Nobody knows how many people are living with these traits across the population, but the massive increase in diagnostics suggests they're a lot more common than anyone ever thought in the past, and therefore gradually becoming very "typical".

Discuss! 🙂

Who is this long list of celebrities claiming to be ND? I can think of about three.

The leg analogy isn't a good one because physical examinations and scans can show the anatomical differences between legs. Although there is some variation in 'normal', a 'different' leg can be objectively identified using clinical data and measures. We simply don't have this kind of diagnosis model for brains and therefore it all becomes subjective and based on behavioural differences.

The leg analogy is also poor because most people with a 'typical' leg will not experience problems with their legs in day to day life. There are literally millions of people considered neurotypical that struggle with their brains and the way it functions everyday. You only need to look at the record levels of stress, anxiety and depression being reported to understand that these aren't trivial little issues. So much of this may be triggered by ND traits that don't meet the threshold for formal diagnosis but massively impact people's mental health and wellbeing. We simply don't know enough to understand this and yet people continue to push the binary NT and ND model and call anyone who dares question it ableist or ignorant. I have to question why people are so desperate to shut down discussion? It isn't invalidating the struggles of those with a diagnosis to suggest that the concept of neurodiversity might be relevant to more people than we initially thought.

Having a disability is embarrassing? How do you know who is ND and who isn’t? If you met my eldest you’d probably think the same of him and me. Very intelligent, articulate little boy who I’m incredibly proud of. I’m hoping with a huge amount of support he’ll be able to lead some sort of typical, independent life (but I’ll always be there if he can’t). He is very definitely autistic and has adhd. Took 7 years to get that diagnosis, and many years ago may not have been recognised until later (or not at all since he’s his dad’s personality twin). All because he can ‘seem’ typical. People like you aren’t there when he’s struggling so badly with day to day life though, you see what you want to see.

I absolutely disagree. Apart from anything else, it's a free pass for governments to cut funding for anything to support ND people. And there is absolutely not h wrong with acknowledging difference- and accepting that some differences mean more support/help is necessary.

So some Mumsnetters find ‘Discuss’ less polite than the premise AIBU. OK, I don’t think I do. Just question framing, discussion topic starter.

Re: ND/NT - I think there’s a degree to which we all seem to be overly concerned about diversity of any kind at the moment. If anyone needs help with something then there should be avenues to achieve it. Do we need the framing NT/ND to help us do that? Do people working in appropriate fields have a better overview than I do? Yeah

Are you assuming I'm "neuro-typical"? Try not to do that, and you may read it differently.

Yes I was also wondering this. There are a few celebrities I’ve seen who I highly suspect are ND but that’s their business to share or not.

@SpeedyDrama

By definition, I could also claim to be ND as I have terrible anxiety but I refuse to label myself

@theplatformedge people who are not NT are quite capable of also being ableist, having internalised ableism from society.

Autism isn't a 'label'. It's a diagnosis HTH

I don't think it will last.

They are almost meaningless words, even just referring to real medical conditions, it covers such a wide variety of conditions that it's not very useful.

It's also now used largely as a trendy kind of word, with people self-diagnosing, so even less meaningful.

I also am increasingly frequently seeing other people be frustrated by those who throw it around a lot and use it for themselves, often for attention it seems or occasionally an excuse. So I suspect it's on a downward trend of being useful.

Plus, once it really enters the general lexicon, someone will have to come up with new gate-keeping language.

I agree with your second paragraph. I think it’s important terms aren’t used without a diagnosis, or else say “We’re awaiting a diabetic but suspect that they have x”.

I don’t agree with the first paragraph. It’s not “every second person”. This type of post is what smacks to me of NT people wanting to lose their advantage. Unfair advantages. However, if you are a diagnosed ND person posting I apologise as I do have sympathy with the fact that some do say they have it with no basis for that.

I usually hate the phrase ‘educate yourself’ but I think it’s appropriate here. I’m sorry you suffer from anxiety, but that doesn’t mean you’re ND. Anxiety can affect anyone in life, though it’s often a comorbidity to ASD/ADHD. If you believe that your anxiety has stemmed from another undiagnosed condition, it is not ‘labelling’ oneself. Autism isn’t a label, it’s a disability - I suggest you inform yourself of the difference before making anymore sweeping and uneducated posts stemming from your personal opinions.

Ah, yes it was, it was very much considered the polite term for a period of time, including among many black civil rights activists and general members of the black community. "People of colour" is a much, much more recent thing.

I agree with your second paragraph. I think it’s important terms aren’t used without a diagnosis, or else say “We’re awaiting a diabetic but suspect that they have x”.

A lot of children receive disability benefits or even an EHCP before they get a diagnosis because the waiting time for dx is literally years, which I've already stated. These issues are picked up in nursery, nowadays and if you're on the pathway in the first place, there has to be evidence for it to be appropriate.

My adult daughter mentioned to me the other day that the most ableist people in her own experience are those who appear to have conditions that cause them to struggle. I agree with her. My youngest dd is 4 and imo she has autism with a PDA profile. Her dad has been sending me fucking books on how to 'heal' autism. But I strongly suspect that he also has PDA. Unfortunately he'd rather be in denial.

Discuss:

Your thread is goady, ableist nonsense.

Anxiety is a 'diagnosis' too.

ND is different as it's used as a umbrella term that is used for a variety of conditions and disorders. As there isn't a definitive list of what is and isn't included then @BlueGrey1 is at liberty to identify or not identify as ND. I don't see how you can argue that she isn't?

My opinion on whether the terms make sense should have no impact on anyone using them. I don’t get the defensiveness. I am allowed to think they don’t capture the whole situation. I think they are flawed, so many people struggle and are under the radar without a diagnosis that would help them but there is yet so much we don’t even understand about the brain. It is relatively recently that autism in girls was even spotted not to mention that those of us from different ethnic backgrounds can also present differently and not be spotted.

My point was that I don't feel it's helpful for any diagnosable condition to be known as a 'label'. The term label is loaded with ableist nonsense.

Lots of people with autism opt not to get diagnosed due to lack of knowledge, cost, waiting lists, not wanting a label, loved ones holding a negative opinion of autism, avoiding treatment, coping really well, having great support around them, masking well, disorganisation, overwhelm or whatever. At the same time people are either autistic or not autistic, regardless wether they are diagnosed or not

Why is this ignorant or ableist? The professionals can't agree on whether anxiety is part of the ND umbrella or not. In the absence of clarity from experts, surely it's for the individual to make their own call on how they want to be describe or legal their condition.

It’s referring to ND conditions as a ‘label’ that’s ignorant and ableist.

For all those people saying ‘everyone says they are ASD these days’ These are American figures. But 1 in 36 So a lot of people. Just under a third of children.