To think the terms "neuro diverse" and "neuro typical" will be short lived.

[theplatformedge]

Diversity means "a range of many people or things that are very different from each other" (Oxford learner's dictionary), so the idea that a minority of people are "neuro diverse" and everyone else is "neuro typical" is not only semantically illogical, but also potentially offensive.

We're all different. Some people have traits that make life more difficult for them than others, whether it be ASD, ADHD or a range of other conditions, with spectrums of severity. Telling people that you're neuro-diverse is so vague as to be meaningless, and telling other people they are nero-typical when you have no idea what they're feeling inside is insensitive. Some people get a formal diagnosis for their symptoms, some people self-diagnose and others don't recognise it in themselves. Nobody knows how many people are living with these traits across the population, but the massive increase in diagnostics suggests they're a lot more common than anyone ever thought in the past, and therefore gradually becoming very "typical".

Discuss! 🙂

Agree, they’re very irritating terms that won’t last long.

It’s particularly strange how the meaning word ‘diverse’ has been changed. My old boss once proudly announced that we were the most dicerse department in the building. I said but we’re 90 white females how is that diverse? He stared at me like I was mad and kept repeating that we were very diverse, which I think to him meant ‘not male’. 🧐

Dc have multiple diagnoses and tbh I think @CoffeeCantata makes a fair point.

no-one gets to define how I am impacted by my disability except me. just as I don’t get to define anyone else’s.

But separating people into two groups, "neuro-divergent/diverse" and "neuro-typical" does exactly that.

Neurodivergence is not a term for how you feel, neurodivergent means that the neurons in that individuals brain are wired differently to the majority of the population and that they process stimuli in a different way. There are studies coming out now that show potential biomarkers in the skull and brain development in foetuses, it is a biological difference not an emotional one.

Not everyone is neurodivergent, in order to get an autism, ADHD, dyslexic etc diagnosis they symptoms and the processing of that stimuli have to cause significant negative impacts to that individuals life.

People self diagnosing is an issue because there is a huge overlap between behaviours experienced by neurodivergent individuals and behaviours experienced by traumatised individuals and untangling them is difficult, nature Vs nurture I guess.

Totally agree OP.
I am dyslexic - got the certificate, the badge etc. I am not neurodiverse. I am a boring normal member of society, and actually quite a privileged one in most ways, for which I am grateful.
My brother is very severely autistic. He wouldn't have a clue what this was about, but on his behalf he is not neurodiverse, he is severely disabled.
Also agree that everyone has some condition or other these days, and for me this is trying to "other" me in some way, which I dislike. It also equates someone like me with my brother, which is just daft.

I think there are groups that are desperate for the neurodiverse and neurotypical distinction to remain because they want to ring fence the support they feel will be diluted if too many people are incorporated under the neurodiverse banner. The problem I have with this is that unlike physical conditions, ASD and ADHD cannot be diagnosed through a brain scan where someone can definitively say that a neurotypical brain looks different to a neurodiverse brain. We therefore rely on complex assessments that are imperfect using subjective judgement and can only reflect our very patchy best understanding of what neurodiversity looks like and how this presents in set conditions. I
Yes, these tests are detailed and use algorithms but they still remain subjective and the thresholds, criteria and definitions change over time. We also know that trauma and stress can hugely impact how the brain works and these things can be hugely intertwined with ASD and ADHD.

Fundamentally my concern is that we are creating a world where we have those with some kind of neurodivergent diagnosis and those without. Those with a diagnosis are afforded sympathy, support and adjustments whilst those who can't quite hit the right criteria in the right way are expected to crack on without any of this and to always give way to those with a diagnosis. I have seen first hand family members really struggle with pretty extreme autistic traits but not quite meet the threshold for an official diagnosis. It is a really difficult to not be 'autistic' enough to qualify for support and yet struggle to cope with day to day life. This binary way of looking at neurodiversity is extremely damaging for those people.

I found your post offensive. Very mild aspergers, we're all on the spectrum etc. I'll report yours in kind.

Neurotypical means neurologically typical, 'normal' wiring, the standard.

Neurodivergence is not down to a 'feeling' its a tangible, evidential difference in the development of the brain.

It can be detected via brain scan actually. and there is evidence out there to prove it.

Keep your ignorance to yourself.

What I feel quite strongly these days is the push, from people who are perhaps neurotypical, for those who are neurodivergent not to be accommodated, or measures taken to help out them into a similar position to everyone else.

A crowd who actively don’t want any help or understanding to be given in case they “miss out” on something. Who have been used to having the advantage over neurodivergent people all their lives, and therefore want to hold on to that at all costs.

It’s neurodivergent not neurodiverse when applied to a specific person.

Edited typos

I would agree with that - my younger sister has autism and borderline learning disability (IQ is 75, cut off for an LD in her area is 75 - if you take IQ as an actual measurement of intelligence but that’s another thread…). She struggles to regulate and understand others, and is liable to throw the TV at you if she’s distressed. She uses signs to communicate at times and needs pictorial timetables. She’s been sectioned before several times.

OTOH my best friend would also identify as autistic, but she has two degrees, is married and has four children - she feels her autism hampers her ability to make and keep friends.

It almost feels like a different disorder in lots of ways!

@gluggle I found that post about “all on the spectrum” very offensive too and think your reply was fine.

So many people think ignorance is an acceptable excuse for ableism.

You owe it to your daughter to become less ignorant. Isn't it about time you made that effort?

We ARE all on some sort of spectrum, it's the spectrum of humanity, we are not all on the autism spectrum, that's just for autistic people. Like all colours are on a spectrum but blue is not on the red spectrum. You would not say you are on the spectrum of vision impairment as you sometimes get blurry vision in the morning, that would just be insulting to the genuinely vision impaired.

There is no such thing as 'mild' autism/aspergers and Asperger's is no longer used as a diagnosis. Please look up Hans Asperger, he was a Nazi eugenicist who categorised physically able disabled people by whether or not they had a high enough IQ to be of use to the Third Reich, the rest he sent to be euthanised.

I don’t think “we’re all on the spectrum”. But there is a spectrum.

I agree it makes sense to have different ways of referring to people at very different points on that spectrum though.

What I feel quite strongly these days is the push from people who are perhaps neurotypical for those who are neurodivergent not to be accommodated, or measures taken to help out them into a similar position to everyone else

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

YES ABSOLUTELY THIS!!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Reported the entire thread.

Yet another attempt to invite people who have no idea what they're talking about, to discuss other peoples disabilities and wave their ignorant, uneducated, ableist attitudes around like anyone actually cares.

No, we are not all on the spectrum. As has been explained many times, the autism spectrum is a spectrum of people who have autism. It does not include people who don’t have autism.

CoffeeCantata nobody has “mild Aspergers”. Aspergers (now called level 1 autism) is not mild, and you can’t have just a little bit of it. You either have it or you don’t.

Yes, ND people are different from each other, and so are NT people. But that doesn’t mean the two groups are anywhere near the same. If you drew a graph of abilities, all of the ND people would be clustered together and so would all of the NT people. A group of NT people will have individual differences but will still be more similar to each other than to ND people.

Exactly what I came to say. If any word needs to fuck off it’s ‘spectrum’. Being ND isn’t a line from ‘very obviously impaired’ to ‘almost totally “normal”’. Either you’re autistic or you’re not, same with ADHD. There’s no mild about it, and to suggest a person with autism who may currently be managing in day to day life is any less autistic than those who are non verbal and lack the ability to self care is utterly offensive. Yes, some people with autism do have higher needs and will do their whole lives - that needs to be recognised in its own right. But this ‘Asperger’s/high functioning’ nonsense only lives to undermine the struggles of those who at any time may burn out from the expectations of living as close to ‘typically’ as possible, because they’re verbal/capable/do not have learning difficulties. Those labelled ‘high functioning’ are very vulnerable to mental health breakdowns.

TLDR: if you don’t have autism/adhd/neurodiversity, you are not ‘somewhere on the spectrum’ in any way..

I do agree with everyone posting in these terms to be clear.

But individual diagnoses are not made on the basis of a brain scan in the vast majority of cases. Diagnosis is made on reported experience of the subject, and someone can have the same or similar experience because of physical differences in their brain that can be observed or a host of other causes. Cancer would have a hard time getting taken seriously if the tumour couldn't be observed and biopsied, but had to be diagnosed based on how the subject reported feeling and experiencing their symptoms. Just as other 'invisible' ilnesses like chronic fatigue struggle to be taken seriously.

They can be seen on brain scans.

l remember when adhd was being reinforced by brain scans as l was a teacher at the time.

Thank you, I appreciate that.