To think the terms "neuro diverse" and "neuro typical" will be short lived.

[theplatformedge]

Diversity means "a range of many people or things that are very different from each other" (Oxford learner's dictionary), so the idea that a minority of people are "neuro diverse" and everyone else is "neuro typical" is not only semantically illogical, but also potentially offensive.

We're all different. Some people have traits that make life more difficult for them than others, whether it be ASD, ADHD or a range of other conditions, with spectrums of severity. Telling people that you're neuro-diverse is so vague as to be meaningless, and telling other people they are nero-typical when you have no idea what they're feeling inside is insensitive. Some people get a formal diagnosis for their symptoms, some people self-diagnose and others don't recognise it in themselves. Nobody knows how many people are living with these traits across the population, but the massive increase in diagnostics suggests they're a lot more common than anyone ever thought in the past, and therefore gradually becoming very "typical".

Discuss! 🙂

@Daftasabroom

Along! You don't know what a spectrum is.

I don't actually know what you mean here!

What are you highlighting the word 'along' to demonstrate I don't know what a spectrum is?

To be honest, this question or statement is perfect for discussion. In fact, there has been quite a lot of debate about the concept of neurodiversity since Judy Singer first used the phrase in 1997.

The main arguments for the term 'neurodiversity' revolve around its apparent inclusivity. For example, it refers to 'difference' and 'diversity' rather than measures of 'normality' or perceptions of 'ability/disability'.

Its main criticisms come from its apparent exclusion. The argument posits that ND is a concept made by people with a voice, largely for those people with a voice, and it sort of excludes individuals whose 'difference' is 'disability'.

Yet, others will say that neurodiversity includes disability just as any type of diversity includes people with disabilities.

Furthermore, historically ND really arose out of discussions about autism. It was then generalised to include a much larger range of neurological differences. Again, arguments are presented to say that generalisation of the application of the term weakens the concept. For example, some people will refer to certain mental health conditions as examples of neurodivergence, but exclude other MH conditions.

Furthermore, some people who are not 'neurodivergent' may not identify as 'neurotypical' and may object to being categorised as such.

In conclusion, after offering a lot of unsupported and unreferenced opinions, I would suggest that neurodiversity is a useful term, which helps us to avoid using loaded terms such as 'normal/not normal' . It is a useful concept which allows us to focus on diversity rather than (just) disability, and it still remains separate from the medical model of disability. Therefore, whilst it remains useful, I suspect it will remain used for a good few years to come.

@2024name Totally agree it's better than normal/not normal. I'd not thought of it that way, and it's the only good argument in favour of it I think. I do appreciate people can find it a useful shorthand when they can't go into detailed diagnosis, and/or, quite reasonably don't want to about private and sensitive matters.
That said, I'm dyslexic and I strongly object to being called neuro diverse. I simply feel it "others" me, which in my case with mild dyslexia is a bit silly. Do appreciate that others have far more difficulties than I do though, and it can come in useful, as you suggest.

Medicating ADHD also often throws a persons autism front and centre because on meds, coping mechanisms you used to 'mask' and regulate, no longer work (or didn't in my case)

Oh that's really interesting! Your theory fits totally for my DC

Thats not actually how aspergers/autism was divided.

Autism specifically had early language disorder/ delay as a criteria and aspergers didnt have early language delay but the other criteria were the same and having early language delay wasnt a great predictor of language ability in adulthood and sometimes those without delays went on to have very poor language skills. So it got merged. There was also a view you could have asd with a low iq or a normal iq (low and high functioning) but aspergers your iq was normal. But they then decided spiky profiles made iq hard to measure.

@ronoi I suspect the word along has been emphasised as your post suggested a linear spectrum " Person A in one place Person B further along". Whereas the autism spectrum is round with each trait being a strength or weakness giving a spiky profile rather than a linear spectrum from mild to severe.

I had to go back and reread what I wrote, perhaps you should do the same?

@ronoi you are right. I missed the "does not", perhaps the other poster did too

That's why asked them

I was diagnosed with AuDHD as an adult and trialled medication. My ADHD runs the show in my world, my autism is there in the background but i've got quite good at keeping that in check to an extent. ADHD is harder to mask because i have inattentive type and can't remember things for toffee, or stop chattering at people XD its got worse as i've hit my 40s and perimenopause.

I started on meds and found that while i had the ability to concentrate, do some work, motivate myself, which was AMAZING.. i absolutely lost the ability to regulate my emotions, it was like all the things i had used over the years to manage suddenly no longer worked. All of those autistic traits i had taught myself to manage and mask over the years.. echolalia, mild ticking habit, sensory overloading were suddenly running the show.

The only conclusion i could come to was the meds were clearly altering something in my brain to 'fix' what was causing the adhd, and in changing the brain chemistry, i'd need to 'relearn' how to handle the autistic bits of my brain that were suddenly running free now the adhd was tied down and not drowning them out.

It was quite bizarre. In the end i decided the meds weren't for me.. i'd rather be in control of my autism and a random, scatty, chatterbox, than lost in my own head and miserable.

FTR, my son is also AuDHD and medicated, and doesn't have the same issue, his meds have made a world of difference in his schooling.

My ASd Dd is currently being assessed for adhd. The doctor said that once ADHD is under control the ASD can become more prevalent.

Oh my goodness, this is exactly how I feel and my concerns if and when I do get diagnosed with ADHD (also inattentive). I suspect I’m autistic as well, but I had an abusive childhood so I’m not sure what is ASD traits and what’s trauma response, but exactly how you’ve described - ADHD runs the show, keeping the other side at bay. Or as I describe it ‘the chaos keeps me sane’.

My biggest worry is that if I ever get my ADHD under control, will other symptoms ramp up. Over the last year I’ve found social interaction as difficult as I did in my youth - eye contact is becoming painful, making conversation takes so much mind planning, notice far more sensory overload that I used to be far more in control of. I may well have to go private if I want an ADHD diagnosis at this point but the worry that I’ll shut down (I had a full burnout at 15 that wasn’t recognised at the time) is there.

Sorry to hijack and derail a bit there 😂

On the subject of the ASD v ADHD, I refused meds. I'm awful at taking medication at the best of times and fearful of not feeling 'myself' - for me I think knowing was enough. I need to understand why I am like this and I can manage my life accordingly (I no longer work or have young DC to consider) and for the most part muddle along.

I agree OP I have a neuro diverse diagnosis but I think its reductive to consider people either Neuro Diverse of Neuro Typical when in reality we are all different. I really hate the idea that just because a person is "NT" they find all the usual adult life stuff "easy" and can do it without struggle, I find this not to be the case at all and if anything it is those who can do all those things easily who are the unusual and special people.

I also remember at university a kind of disturbing trend amongst some of my fellow students who also received a diagnosis which made them "neuro diverse" where they would lean into that as their whole identity and even seemed to play up to certain behaviours and expect a free pass because they were different and special. For me it was more about finding out how I learn, my strengths and weaknesses and find ways to make them work for me or to support myself in things I find harder so that I wouldn't be held back by them than making it my identity.

@ronoi apologies I missed that.

It also doesn't have to be represented as a radar diagram.

ND is an umbrella term that is including more and more different things, so it can make it seem that 'everyone is ND'. I was surprised to discover, as a person with a specific learning difficulty, I fit under that umbrella. At one time, it was primarily associated with autism, then ADHD was added along with the SLDs such as dyslexia, dyspraxia and dyscalculia. There's a degree of co-morbidity with these conditions which is why they fall under this umbrella. The more we learn about ND, the more we will likely find that fits under this umbrella.

NT literally just means anyone not under that umbrella. Some of the difficulty I have with the terms is the misuse, particularly of NT. It doesn't mean 'bland, beige, average,', it just means 'not ND'. It doesn't mean NT people don't have difficulties, it just means they aren't ND specific. I got really annoyed once by a poster on an ND thread on FB talking about NTs having no understanding and how easy it was for 'them'. Given that NT people can have severe disabilities, suffer from clinical depression, live in extreme poverty and a whole gamut of issues which just don't happen to be 'ND' l found that remark ignorant.

Don't apologise.. i suppose its relevant in terms of explaining how appearing to function is actually us mostly being stuck together with plaster, hope, and years of doing the same thing.

Peri is definitely making it harder, and i did burn out, several times.. i always assumed it was the anxiety disorder i have, but with diagnosis i'm realising it was burnout/shut down manifesting as extreme anxious response. First was at 17 years of age in the middle of my a-levels.

Last time was during covid as i manifested a sudden health anxiety and became terrified we were all going to die :/ in the middle of trying to juggle home-schooling my DD and having to manage DS's fears while he was still attending his special school... and being terrified he'd bring it home with him.

I've had a buttload of intense CBT since, and a diagnosis of audhd where my therapist asked how the fuck either had gone undiagnosed for so long as i'm a massive walking poster girl for inattentive ADHD, and we just had to shrug and put it down to it being female presentation being so misunderstood.

I outwardly 'function' as i said upthread, but i have never been able to hold down a full time job, my ADHD impacts me severely on a day to day survival basis as all my time goes into making sure the kids are cared for properly. I think my autistic obsessive level need for routine is what saves me, although my ADHD occasionally likes to just delete routines and pretend like they never existed when i go 'wtf?' at it.

I find it ironic that despite all that, its a physical disability that has rendered me as allowed to consider myself 'disabled' in the eyes of people as i use a walking aid.

My anxiety and invasive thoughts have also ramped up over the last year. I put it down to being single for the first time since my 20s, first time living fully alone as an adult whilst also being responsible for 3 children (two diagnosed with ASD, one also adhd). It got seriously out of control by the end of the year, full blown panic attacks. Literally the slightest thing going wrong and I couldn’t sleep/eat for days. Now I’m back to feeling utterly numb, but I’m not depressed. It’s like my emotions only have two extreme modes and it’s always pretty much been the case.

I used to work but always found it difficult, the easiest jobs I had where ones that had very strict routine and worked alone. I’m a full time carer now, I’d love to work but the thought also terrifies me. Always told I had high intelligence and potential but never ‘applied myself’ - people don’t realise how much effort it takes to hold yourself together everyday without a breakdown. Survival mode is definitely the best way to describe it.

Thank you for sharing your experience, as tough as it all is it’s helpful to know others have been through similar.

[NT] doesn't mean 'bland, beige, average,', it just means 'not ND'

I don't think anyone believes it means 'bland, beige, average'. They understand it to mean "not diagnosed with a neurological condition'.

But, as you say, issues arise when it is mis-used to make sweeping generalisations. As well as the groups you mention, many of the undiagnosed have similar struggles to some of the diagnosed - but either can't get, don't want to get, or don't (yet) associate their symptoms with a formal diagnosis.

I put some in italics because while many of the people on this thread have highlighted how profound the difficulties need to be to get an NHS diagnosis, it is much less difficult (with money) to get a private diagnosis, hence the proliferation of celebs and others 'coming out' as ND.

wow.. scarily similar i think. I'm also a single mum, been 6 years, but a full time carer to DS. Both kids have diagnosis or are on the pathway/stuck in the system for them.

DS is autistic/adhd/dcd and DD is very adhd with potentially some autism going on as well, she is my twin tbh.

CBT has very much helped me with processing some of the big emotions.. i've had a difficult week this last week and caught myself dissociating a couple of times simply because its just been too emotionally overwhelming.. so had to pull out the stuff my therapist gave me to walk myself through handling it.. i can't afford to go into burnout/shut down with where the kids are in life atm.

There's definitely days i am just surviving.

Its why threads like this annoy me. to some i have 'mild' autism/neurodivergence because i'm intelligent, can hold a conversation and advocate for myself and my kids, but some of that is because i have given up all attempts at 'fitting in' with society and just be myself.. i guess being a carer allows that to a point.

However, when i see people who are NT thriving, i know its impact on me isn't 'mild' by the slightest means.

Of course NT Dosen’t mean bland, beige, average, what a load of bullshit, in the same way ND Dosen’t mean stupid, annoying and slow

I dont think celebs coming out as ND is an issue.

Take Johnny Vegas as a case and point.
I did read his autobiography which talked about his childhood and the difficulties he's had, but how he's turned the hand he's dealt into success.

Its GOOD for kids with adhd who might be struggling to see there are people out there with that condition that have managed to turn it around and make a success.

I don't think it's an 'issue' either - but it is a reason why large numbers of so-called NTs across the population begin to question whether they are also ND if they recognise themselves as having similar traits.

@YuleDragon

I think a lot of celebs are using being ND to get interviews / do podcasts and make their autobiographies more interesting and as a result the general public are getting very bored of listening about it, they are just using being ND to make a quick buck and hopefully raise their profile