To think the terms "neuro diverse" and "neuro typical" will be short lived.

[theplatformedge]

Diversity means "a range of many people or things that are very different from each other" (Oxford learner's dictionary), so the idea that a minority of people are "neuro diverse" and everyone else is "neuro typical" is not only semantically illogical, but also potentially offensive.

We're all different. Some people have traits that make life more difficult for them than others, whether it be ASD, ADHD or a range of other conditions, with spectrums of severity. Telling people that you're neuro-diverse is so vague as to be meaningless, and telling other people they are nero-typical when you have no idea what they're feeling inside is insensitive. Some people get a formal diagnosis for their symptoms, some people self-diagnose and others don't recognise it in themselves. Nobody knows how many people are living with these traits across the population, but the massive increase in diagnostics suggests they're a lot more common than anyone ever thought in the past, and therefore gradually becoming very "typical".

Discuss! 🙂

Haven't read full thread but neurodiversity by definition (probably) includes ALL "neurotypes".
There are as many different neurotypes as there are personalities (because everything is a spectrum of differing traits/charactaristics/ways our brains work).
Collections of some neurological characteristics have been named (eg. Dyslexia, Autism) in an attempt to fit people who are struggling with modern expectations into nice neat categories (presumably so they can be offered accomodations) but have you ever heard the saying "when you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism"? That's because even within the different categories there's so much diversity that no two collections of traits look exactly alike.
How well do you know yourself? Are you sure you don't fit into one of the boxes? Is there another box people are calling neurotypical? Are the boxes even real?

Exactly @EverySporkIsSacred . The term neurodiversity was originally coined to reflect the full range of the population, not just those with a nameable condition (whether formally diagnosed or not). But it has morphed.

It's not surprising "diversity" has morphed in the same way too, people think it means "different from the norm".

I don't know why some are so convinced there aren't people who are scammers and fad followers about this stuff. They exist about everything else and are surprisingly plentiful.

In order to get a diagnosis of any neurodivergence, it MUST impact your life in a daily and chronic basis in a negative way. Showing a behaviour that might be a clue towards ND does not mean you have a mild dose of it, it means you are NT with a quirk that is not affecting your life in an adverse way significatly. So no we aren’t ‘all’ a bit ND

But my child does have autism and mod/severe LD.
If he didn't have the autism he would still be significantly disabled by his LD and vice versa.
One of his brothers has autism and mod ld again with out one he'd still have the other.
Another has autism without any LD. Still autistic and very much affected despite being far more verbal and able in other ways, still very much disabled.
In fact I'd go as far as to say that the child without LD is, in some ways more affected by his autism. 7 school days in to the new term and we've had school refusal for 6 of those days and I've only got him in school for 4 days. His older brother "looks" disabled and despite being older people make far more allowances when he exhibits behaviour that stems from the autism. With the younger one, he doesn't look disabled, so he gets the stares, the comments, people telling him he's a bit boy so why can't he walk in a noisy room. Etc etc.
I actually have 6 children all of which are neuro-divergent. 4 have an autism dx, 1 has an ADHD/dyspraxia dx, and one is waiting for a dx most likely ASD/PDD. All bar the youngest have other difficulties, 1 is in a wheelchair due to hypermobility that is often co-morbid with ASD. Another has a rare.form of CP and is visibly disabled.
They are, however, all autistic and every aspect of their (and our) lives are affected by that autism, very often severely impacted, despite any verbal or learning ability

Science will catch up with your beliefs?

Personality and personal identity has nothing to do with neuro diversity though. It doesn't mean your thinking and cognitive processes are any different to anyone else and "from what you have seen" means nothing - your judgement and perception of other people gives you no insight whatsoever to their cognitive processes and internal thoughts.

@ronoi the autistic spectrum doesn't place people in order of severity

Not people but traits, but that's pretty much exactly what it does,

mild autism is still way more of an interference in normal day to day living than severe dyslexia would be.

That is completely wrong on so many levels, you really have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

They are very helpful words if you live, know or work with people with ASD/LD/mental health problems. They are not helpful if we say "everyone is ND" because while we are all different this isn't the point or what ND means. Neurotypical replaces 'normal' or 'not disabled' which both have obvious problems. My sister is severely autistic and I often found myself saying I'm normal, I'm the normal one. It's rubbish and ND/NT work much better.

People with ADHD or ASD can find that the world isn't designed with their needs in mind, it's an easy shorthand to say "sorry these bright lights/queuing system/exam set up/party/loud noise may not work for me" and explain the adaptions people use or need.

'Additional needs' works fairly well for children but can be patronising for adults who for the most part will have their own plans and set ups for navigating life.

As for severe/mild autism.. come on. Some people with ASD (my sister) are non verbal, need 24/7 care, can't manage lots of aspects of life. Some people like my dad have ASD and have full time jobs, children, social lives.. his ASD is real and massively affects him but is objectively mild on the spectrum.

We do need words to describe things and while it's important to be sensitive it can't all be focused on validating feelings.

I haven't said I am ND. Or NT. Im just saying I dont think, i think like most people and i dont even rememberwhat i was talking about now.

I'm a hoarder. That's a DSM condition. So i probably do think like most people. However i am guessing from mu pov I do not think like most people. Maybe I do. Hoarding is a compulsive repetitive thing. Maybe it's not part of my personality either.

If I was a serial murderer I could be fairly sure I wasn't thinking like most people.

So if we micro direct it. My childten has Autism and other SEN. I do not.

I would explain my children as having SEN as they have ehcps so legally they do have SEN as there's argument to be had. They go to a SEN school too. So I'd say they are ND

I am like the vast majority of the population. I am NT.

Maybe OP is correct. I'd hate to have to have to justify either their sen. To justify why they have ASD.

Neurodiverse doesn’t just mean autistic or adhd though does it. I for example have OCD. Presumably this means I’m neurodiverse even though I function relatively well on the surface and keep my OCD well hidden. My sister has anxiety, depression and bi polar so she’s neurodiverse too. My brother has PTSD so also falls in the category. My point is, as life goes on, more and more people will develop conditions they didn’t necessarily have in childhood (such as my brother) but that then ‘label’ them as neurodiverse as adults and this means that there will be many many adults who are neurodiverse. If we are considering every diagnosis that impacts them (ocd etc). It wouldn’t surprise me if it was a 50/50 split if not more towards the neurodiverse side because of how many adults are affected by so many conditions.

I hear it used when either a condition hasn’t mean fully diagnosed or statemented yet or when a group is being talked about. Or when someone doesn’t actually want to go into deal for whatever reason.
no big deal.

Wholeheartedly agree @Flensburg and @RainbowZebraWarrior

But it’s been like this forever and @MNHQ have made it clear that it’s not going to change. I literally have an email from them saying it’s fine to refer to me as mildly autistic. It is absolutely beyond belief.

Groundhoghcg

It isn’t focused on reality. Your autistic traits have to be severe to get a diagnosis enough to limit and impair daily functioning.Processionals and diagnosticians aren’t in the business of validating feelings

We don’t have your sister’s medical records to examine and pick apart as regards what is and isn’t autism. You don’t have my dc’s. However the enhanced PIP, supported living, many prescriptions, much needed reasonable adjustments and teams of professionals in overstretched services, the devastating impact it’s had on several lives makes it pretty clear that none of our diagnoses are “mild”. We know this and professionals know this particularly as they are on the business of keeping my dc safe and alive. The diagnostic criteria is clear explaining that ‘severity’ levels may vary by context and also fluctuate over time, that the descriptive severity categories should not be used to determine eligibility for and provision of services, and that 'these can only be developed at an individual level and through discussion of personal priorities and targets'.

So please refrain from spouting such ableist nonsense.

Flensburg · Today 08:30

I totally hear you and wholeheartedly support your post. It is utterly appalling.

Thank you to you and @Scautish. 💐💐

I would agree that it might be used when you don't want to go into details.

Yes I know it's not just ASD and ADHD - one son has dyspraxia and language disorder and that's it but is a SEN school. I see it rightly or wrongly as a easy catch all.

You can also be ND before diagnosis. For example from my pov my son was born with dyspraxia. So he always dyspraxic. He wasn't suddenly dyspraxic at diagnosis. I knew something was up age 2. I don't wouldn't police the language you use whilst seeking a diagnosis.

My child has Sen and ASD. I get this convo a lot

What's the reason?
He's got SEN
What one?
Asd
What makes you think that then?

I don't think it, I was told by a nhs paediatrician. The paed has x years degree and x years experience to gain experience to become a consultant. Who are we to say that's wrong.

Also although I think I'm not NT as can be seen, saying I'm a bit quirky doesn't satisfy that I'm wild differently I have to state that I hoard explicitly and hoarding might or might be viewed as nonsense load of guff. So to me, it closes conversation down I'd prefer to not be drawn on talking about my kids three kids with ehcps as its constantly. Why do thinkthat then? Why do you say thar then? They look / you look OK to me. Aka a consultant paediatrician knows less than me, I, Joe Bloggs, with no a levels forgot a medical degree know better. And on that point, that's where I leave the thread.

I do think debate is good. However some things are set out in law. What does English medicine say and law. Ehcps are SEN that's a legal fact protected by law. Etc.

@Nineteendays a single person can't be neurodiverse. Diversity by definition needs variety. Divergent, yes, diverse, no.

It talks about the individuals traits, how a person is affected by said traits. It absolutely does not refer to person A sits here and person B is further along.

"Some people like my dad have ASD and have full time jobs, children, social lives.. his ASD is real and massively affects him but is objectively mild on the spectrum."

How can it be "mild" if "his ASD is real and massively affects him"?

"Mild" is how you see it.

Along! You don't know what a spectrum is.

@Groundhoghcg *As for severe/mild autism.. come on. Some people with ASD (my sister) are non verbal, need 24/7 care, can't manage lots of aspects of life. Some people like my dad have ASD and have full time jobs, children, social lives.. his ASD is real and massively affects him but is objectively mild on the spectrum.

We do need words to describe things and while it's important to be sensitive it can't all be focused on validating feelings.*

This. Would be nice if some sensitivity could be shown towards those caring/loving for severely autistic people.......

@TigerRag Nope, mild is relative. Because autism is so severe, then people with mild autism can still have very significant difficulties in life. It would help if people went back to using Aspergers, then people could have severe Aspergers, but if it's all autism, then severe Aspergers has to be mild autism. That's not to say it doesn't give significant problems in life, which can cause MH problems. Of course it can.