People ending their lives?

[girlfriend44]

Are more and more people giving up on life? Heard another suicide today and its going to be debated in Parliament tomorrow?

Is it because mental health services are poor, have they always been poor?
Is life just getting harder for people?
Or has it always been hard?

I can remember when suicide was rare now you hear it so much sadly.

We are big boys and girls here, the title does make it clear what is about to be discussed. I agree.

It's a topic that's more openly discussed these days, more awareness about mental health but just not the services reflecting this. More funding is desperately needed.

I’m sorry for what happened to your family.

Just to say that this isn’t about individuals on here policing language, it’s an international change in the way that people are encouraged to talk about suicide in order to destigmatise it. Many people don’t know that so a previous poster and I were trying to communicate that. Of course individuals can say what they want but they may get people pointing this out to them.

I think there is room for nuance in language.

Two people die in a car crash:
1 - drink driver caused a multi car pile up
1 - innocent 4yo caught up in the crash

I do not think both of those deaths should be described as a "car accident " like they are remotely the same thing.

Same as the PP whose brother in law killed her sister and then himself. That's not the same as a terminally ill person taking too much morphine. There has to be the language to express differences

I've known 2 middle aged fathers to take their lives.

Neither seemed depressed and both had dependent DCs and seemingly supportive wives.

But both had history of class a drug abuse and unsteady employment.

Both cases messed their DCs up.

Maybe we should all be more aware of risk factors and know mental health first aid?

For the people left behind, it is extremely hard but that is something they need help with
How do you think those left behind, will receive help, if its the very same MH help their loved one, who killed themselves, didn't get? Does the MH support suddenly become available to the families, when it wasn't available for the original person in need?

As a survivor, I can tell you, from my experience and that of my family, there is zero support available.

Those left behind, are more likely to experience depression, lifelong guilt and issues, as well as a higher chance of having suicidal thoughts themselves.

@echt
@tuvamoodyson
@Metabolicallycomplicated

Several posters before you commented and explained that the thread didn’t need a trigger Warning so at 8.55am yesterday morning, I apologised for my trigger warning request. I was only trying to be helpful to those who may find this thread distressing and no harm was intended. Therefore, I don’t really see the need for further comments about the trigger warning request.

@ChocolateCakeOverspill
but you coming onto a thread where people are already talking about it just comes across as preachy and sanctimonious

Same as the PP whose brother in law killed her sister and then himself. That's not the same as a terminally ill person taking too much morphine. There has to be the language to express differences
Isn't your first example referred to as a murder suicide so the difference is clear

I think it’s important that people are made aware of the correct terminology and that suicide should no longer be viewed as a crime.

I am so sorry for the loss of your family members @dinnerInthedog

Why? It's clear what the thread is about from the title.

It is not correct terminology though it is what you have chosen, that doesn’t make it correct. I was already aware of it but in my situation I choose not to use that terminology. That is up to me.

I came onto the thread because I’ve been personally affected by suicide a number of times, not specifically to post about terminology. In my opinion, the move to reduce stigma is a good thing, I wish people had thought about this stuff earlier because if they had perhaps things might have felt different for some of the people that I’ve lost. I’ve had it pointed out to me when I talked about my family and while at the time I felt criticised, with the context it felt really positive.

If you choose not to use that language and if you disagree with it, that’s your choice but it’s helpful to lots of people to hear that language is changing and why this is.

I’m sorry that you find that preachy and sanctimonious.

Unfortunately you’re not going to be able to remove the stigma until the law changes. I am suicidal. I have a NHS MH team trying to support me. I find talking about my plans and intent cathartic, however I have to be very careful. If I’m too honest then I’ll be involuntary detained under the Mental Health Act. While it’s no longer a criminal act, the law still stigmatises suicide.

My team are fantastic at managing my risk - we use positive risk taking methods. But I know the fact I can’t be 100% honest, coupled with my history of trauma and how I now react to things, is likely to end with me taking my life.

There needs to be a lot of open debates held - without the overly oppressive influence of outdated religious beliefs - and the focus needs to be on the needs and wants of the suicidal person.

You make a very important point.

To talk openly about exactly how ill you are often leads to further problems. I could lose my job and my children over trying to seek help. The way mental health issues are approached is really not helpful.

I hate it when people say committing suicide is the "easy" way out or selfish.
Please let me explain that it is NOT selfish. I had 2 near fatal suicide attempts once in 2020 that left me in ITU for 6 weeks, had to learn basic life skills such as walking.
2nd time in 2023, again, in ITU for 8 weeks, when I woke up I couldn't move one part of my body. I had to learn to walk, eat, swallow and hold my own sitting position again. I had to be fed and washed, had to use a bedpan ect, now where is the dignity in that? I was bed bound for 5 months.
I'm still only around 80% recovered back to baseline.
Yes, now I am in a much better place mentally and feel actually lucky to be here.
I'd also like to note, I have ALOT of support in place, a CPN, psychiatrist - fully medicated and take my medication properly.
Do people really think in that moment we can actually think clearly and logically?
Can people imagine being at rock bottom and feeling like suicide is our only way out.
In fact, it's probably the bravest thing I've ever done in terms of recovery. It's not easy.

People ought to think before jumping to assumptions.

You'd be surprised at the number of people who are very cool and collected prior to taking their own lives because they have decided that this life is not what they want any longer. They put their affairs in order and while they do not always leave a note, it remains a thought-through process
It isn't always a rash, random decision
edited for spelling

"Almost unforgivable"? That's a disgusting attitude. People who commit suicide are usually at rock bottom and can see no other solution. The survival instinct is incredibly difficult to overcome. The impact on other people isn't a consideration, partly because the people who might be adversely affected didn't give a shit about the victim before they died, they didn't try to help them, in most or all cases didn't even know they existed until they didn't.

I agree that particularly gruesome methods like jumping from height or in front of a train can cause permanent psychological damage. The thing is, people don't resort to these methods because they want to, they use them because "cleaner" methods are unavailable to them. Hanging for instance is pretty grim but is relatively uncommon in the US compared to here because of the opportunities to use a gun to end one's life. (A gun death can be messy but is usually contained and done in private.) Where painless, reliable and non-messy methods are widely available people tend to use them. Very few people commit suicide with the intention to harm others, either by their death or the impact it will have on others.

Every time someone comes up with a safe, reliable, painless and clean way of committing suicide and promotes it on the web, they get villified, access gets restricted, the police get involved. Just a couple of months ago the BBC reported on a suicide advice website and were highly critical. (They didn't name it but helpfully made it easy to identify by quoting the site directly, so you could search for the quote and get there in a couple of clicks.)

Fine - we don't want people to kill themselves. But our choice is between making suicide difficult and therefore pushing people to more violent, painful and unpleasant methods, or allowing people to make the decision and have the means to do it more safely. There is no option to prevent suicide altogether.

The biggest issue for men is we don't feel as if we can talk about our mental health to friends/family and the downward trend continues, people say talk to samaritans or a therapist.

A therapist is great if you can afford it and some when they have reached the suicide stage can't and truly believe they are better off dead and very little will stop them.

As for saying it is selfish I'm 50/50 on that some cases yes others not.

Friends have taken their own lives, others have had people step in front of the truck they where driving.

I have been at the point of taking my own life in the past, its really not a great place to be!

There is bereavement support available, there is counselling and other forms of therapy. I am sorry your family was not able to access it for whatever reason at the time. It’s usually very beneficial.

It's gotten so much worse since in-patient services were cut and "care in the community" became a thing (and then was removed too!). We have a mental illness that runs in the family - my grandma was hospitalised for it in the 60s for over a month in an MH hospital, while psychiatrists found the meds that suited her, and they also ran blood tests that found various deficiencies they treated at the same time.

Now I have the condition, I'm expected to manage it alone at home with no specialist support, no services available overnight, nothing checked, just a "try this one" approach to meds by a GP. When it's bad, the nights are the absolute worst and the loneliest I've ever been - no-one is up, I can't wake friends or family because they also have work in the morning, so jittery that sitting still for 5 mins feels like over an hour. We used to have a lot of jumpers on our train line first thing in the morning, and I could see why.

When I'm ill I've asked to be admitted, but been told no unless I am actively attempting to end my own life - I do wonder how many folk intended to be found and get the help they need, but something went wrong.

I am very glad you have some support in place. Are you dealing with the trauma that your suicidal thoughts stem from? Do you have a tool box ready and preventative measures?

It’s not inevitable that your life will end. Your perception and reactions need to shift dramatically ( easier said than done) It is possible for you to go on and lead a happy and fulfilling life - maybe one that takes into account your trauma and CPTSD etc but one that is certainly worth living. A day at a time. 💐💐

Please ALWAYS call your friends and family in the middle of the night if you need to. They would far rather a call from you than s knock at the door from the police. Can they offer a rota that are on call for you? You are more important than anything they are doing the follow on day. Please talk to them today and organise shifts so someone is always there for you 247.

It’s not a disgusting attitude. You say gun death is contained and done in private. My brother shot himself in the head in his house 6 weeks ago leaving his young student lodger to find him. I can’t put into words what it’s done to her and to our family. My parents, my nephew, my nephew’s mother, me, my Dh, our children. Our lives are destroyed forever.

Thank you! When I need it I call the Samaritans - while they can't offer practical support, just knowing someone else is awake and willing to talk to you is helpful. I'm very conscious about bothering friends & family because there are so few of them - supporting me overnight for years & years, and having to drive to work on no sleep, would have done no good for their own health and livelihoods.

Ideally I'd do night shift work to try and manage these periods but my illnesses make me unsuitable for a lot of the jobs that offer it. I could quite easily do a lot of my current work overnight, but employers insist I'm around in the day for meetings 🙄

They pass, and then they come back, if you are afflicted with severe depression. My mother killed herself aged 60 after a lifetime of rising and receding mental health problems. It wasn't the first time she'd tried. It breaks my heart she's gone, and that she was so unhappy, and that I wasn't in the end able to help her; but I also know she suffered, and fought, and fought, and suffered with her mental health all her life. I'm not sorry she's not in that pain any more, or having a 'good patch' and waiting for that pain to come back. She could have had another 30 years, and I'd have treasured every one; but she would have had to live them. And after 45 years on antidepressants of various kinds, every therapy under the sun, in-patient care, not to mention multiple incurable and worsening physical health problems and severe financial hardship... maybe she couldn't face them. And I would struggle to say that she should have had to, no matter how much I might wish she had chosen that path instead of the one she did.