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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People ending their lives?

264 replies

girlfriend44 · 15/01/2024 21:16

Are more and more people giving up on life? Heard another suicide today and its going to be debated in Parliament tomorrow?

Is it because mental health services are poor, have they always been poor?
Is life just getting harder for people?
Or has it always been hard?

I can remember when suicide was rare now you hear it so much sadly.

OP posts:
Riverlee · 24/01/2024 14:12

And numerous people had already pointed out the error of my ways.

RunningFromThePastHell · 24/01/2024 14:32

XenoBitch · 17/01/2024 18:14

I am not surprised by this.

There was also a scheme called Serenity Integrated Mentoring (or High Intensity Network) that also sought to criminalise people having a MH crisis as a way to manage them.

I went through something similar when young. It's still difficult to talk or think about. The trauma and shame it left me with was immense. The worst thing is that now, the legacy of this time and the utter neglect and vindictiveness of all services has left a scar running through my life which makes things so hard, but if I struggle mentally people just want to push me back to those services. It's like escaping an abusive relationship and when you struggle with the aftermath people just tell you to go back to the abuser, for the rest of your life.

There used to be a poster on here who'd been through similar. When she posted about it people would get very angry and defensive of services. She was such a kind person, we got talking and stayed in touch. She killed herself after a few years. At her funeral there were so many messages from people far and wide that she'd helped and supported. She was intelligent, compassionate and if she'd been given a chance to heal would have helped so many others. Unlike those services which utterly failed her.

The utter horror, the abuse, of how people with complex trauma histories were/are treated ... it's a scandal, but not enough people care for the full horror to be in the public consciousness, or for those involved to be held accountable.

The done thing when I was attempting to get help was to label traumatised people as having Borderline Personality Disorder, even if they didn't really meet the criteria (many were actually undiagnosed autistic women) ... a sort of caricature, designating them as "untouchable", terrible people who were just attention seeking, manipulative troublemakers and absolutely shouldn't be engaged with. There's a whole vocabulary of gaslighting to go with this - for example, if there were some humane people in services who felt the person should be helped, the individual in question would be accused of intentionally "splitting" the team, and this was viewed as evidence of their terrible manipulative nature.

And yet it was widely known to services that these people were highly likely to have histories of CSA, for example, yet rather than have compassion this was almost treated as a shortcut to deciding "must be BPD" and into the untouchables box with them. (If you look at the supposed traits of BPD it's basically "this is how people behave and feel when they are deeply traumatised". But only a select few patients with precisely the right kind of trauma history, and whose "faces fit" would get a PTSD diagnosis.)

I read so many personal testimonies, blogs, mental health forums, carers accounts, stuff from the policing side, the odd academic study or book that actually covered this stuff... it helped to realise it wasn't me, it was the system, but then again it's unbelievably disempowering to realise what you've been up against. One of the things I read that stuck with me was a blog by a chap who cared for his wife (trauma history, labelled BPD), which gradually followed his utter disbelief and horror at the neglect, cruelty, and utter counter-productivity of services. At one point he was offered ongoing mental health support in his role as a carer, whilst his wife was still unable to access any help at all. He wrote, baffled, that it would be much more helpful all round if SHE could access the support instead!

I had hoped things were better in services by now. Perhaps now it is more a case of zero funding, and therefore neglect, rather than actual hostility from services.

Apologies for the long post.

XenoBitch · 24/01/2024 20:34

@RunningFromThePastHell your post resonated with me, and I am sorry to read these things happened to you. I have a diagnosis of EUPD and was under SIM/HIT a few years back. I am not certain such a scheme even runs now as it was very controversial. My police mentor ended up having a breakdown and my local trust never replaced her.
it really makes you lose any faith and trust in MH services and these schemes that are meant to "help".
Nowadays, peer support is my go to thing... talking to people who have been there and understand.
I sincerely hope things are brighter for you now Flowers

PeoniesLilac · 24/01/2024 21:04

Can I ask how you access peer support, @XenoBitch? I've googled lots, but can only find groups. A friend described it to me as one-to-one.

PeoniesLilac · 24/01/2024 21:07

That's absolutely terrible, @RunningFromThePastHell. All of it. Please don't apologise for a long post - it all needs saying. So many people on MN just repeat "see your GP" at any mention of MH issues or suicidal ideation. Words fail really as to what might (won't) be provided.

Flowers
XenoBitch · 24/01/2024 21:21

PeoniesLilac · 24/01/2024 21:04

Can I ask how you access peer support, @XenoBitch? I've googled lots, but can only find groups. A friend described it to me as one-to-one.

I go to support groups run by my local Mind. I also am in a few heavily moderated FB groups for specific MH issues.
These work for me, but I can understand how they wont for everyone.

Pigeonqueen · 24/01/2024 21:58

RunningFromThePastHell · 24/01/2024 14:32

I went through something similar when young. It's still difficult to talk or think about. The trauma and shame it left me with was immense. The worst thing is that now, the legacy of this time and the utter neglect and vindictiveness of all services has left a scar running through my life which makes things so hard, but if I struggle mentally people just want to push me back to those services. It's like escaping an abusive relationship and when you struggle with the aftermath people just tell you to go back to the abuser, for the rest of your life.

There used to be a poster on here who'd been through similar. When she posted about it people would get very angry and defensive of services. She was such a kind person, we got talking and stayed in touch. She killed herself after a few years. At her funeral there were so many messages from people far and wide that she'd helped and supported. She was intelligent, compassionate and if she'd been given a chance to heal would have helped so many others. Unlike those services which utterly failed her.

The utter horror, the abuse, of how people with complex trauma histories were/are treated ... it's a scandal, but not enough people care for the full horror to be in the public consciousness, or for those involved to be held accountable.

The done thing when I was attempting to get help was to label traumatised people as having Borderline Personality Disorder, even if they didn't really meet the criteria (many were actually undiagnosed autistic women) ... a sort of caricature, designating them as "untouchable", terrible people who were just attention seeking, manipulative troublemakers and absolutely shouldn't be engaged with. There's a whole vocabulary of gaslighting to go with this - for example, if there were some humane people in services who felt the person should be helped, the individual in question would be accused of intentionally "splitting" the team, and this was viewed as evidence of their terrible manipulative nature.

And yet it was widely known to services that these people were highly likely to have histories of CSA, for example, yet rather than have compassion this was almost treated as a shortcut to deciding "must be BPD" and into the untouchables box with them. (If you look at the supposed traits of BPD it's basically "this is how people behave and feel when they are deeply traumatised". But only a select few patients with precisely the right kind of trauma history, and whose "faces fit" would get a PTSD diagnosis.)

I read so many personal testimonies, blogs, mental health forums, carers accounts, stuff from the policing side, the odd academic study or book that actually covered this stuff... it helped to realise it wasn't me, it was the system, but then again it's unbelievably disempowering to realise what you've been up against. One of the things I read that stuck with me was a blog by a chap who cared for his wife (trauma history, labelled BPD), which gradually followed his utter disbelief and horror at the neglect, cruelty, and utter counter-productivity of services. At one point he was offered ongoing mental health support in his role as a carer, whilst his wife was still unable to access any help at all. He wrote, baffled, that it would be much more helpful all round if SHE could access the support instead!

I had hoped things were better in services by now. Perhaps now it is more a case of zero funding, and therefore neglect, rather than actual hostility from services.

Apologies for the long post.

Such a moving and important post. And there is a similar level of gaslighting going on in the nhs with people (like me) who have very complex medical needs. The dismissive and abusive nature of those who should be “caring” for the most vulnerable people is just horrendous.

OverTheGrip · 24/01/2024 22:34

PanickingAgainNow · 23/01/2024 20:14

I am suicidal but would never let anyone know (family, friends, colleagues, acquaintances) because I wouldn’t want them to feel that they could/should have done something to prevent it.
I have shared my plans with MH professionals before but that inevitably has consequences so I wouldn’t do that again.

@PanickingAgainNow
💐

AngelusBell · 13/07/2024 18:57

Ifailed · 15/01/2024 21:22

I can remember when suicide was rare now you hear it so much sadly.

I suspect that's because it was so unacceptable, both culturally and religiously.

Also because coal gas was replaced by natural gas and barbiturates are no longer available.

beeloubee · 13/07/2024 23:40

I've been suicidal since vaccine injury. Also there's long covid affecting people now.

outdamnedspots · 13/07/2024 23:53

Riverlee · 15/01/2024 21:27

Can mumsnet put a trigger warning on this - some people may find it upsetting.

I think the title is self-explanatory

Dreamsofcruise · 14/07/2024 00:00

Riverlee · 15/01/2024 21:27

Can mumsnet put a trigger warning on this - some people may find it upsetting.

The subject of the thread is literally the title why does thatcrequiteca ‘triggerxwarning’

outdamnedspots · 14/07/2024 00:04

Augustus40 · 24/01/2024 12:38

Unfortunately public services are very overstretched and under resourced.

The Samaritans can be helpful but I think it isn't as good as it used to be. Possibly due to a lack of volunteers. In addition many listeners just encourage callers to call the doctor which isn't really the point. Many volunteers lack streetwise awareness of what viable help is actually out there. Everybody gets inadvertently fobbed off. There is nowhere to turn.

Untrue. Sams have a list of places to refer suicidal callers to, but Sams is the charity that suicidal people call. We are there to listen to people, not to offer advice.

Plus we have plenty of new volunteers, in our area anyway.

Dreamsofcruise · 14/07/2024 00:06

Owls912 · 15/01/2024 21:51

Mental health services in my area are hopeless . In my place of work we often have to deal with suicidal people and 9 times out of 10 mental health nurses will say no sign of mental illness even if that person has voiced suicidal ideation . They get a phone number and told to see their GP. If your life is shit because of a relationship breakdown , bereavement , debt anything really no amount of intervention in the world can sometimes change any of this . I’ve known quite a few people who have taken their own lives and it does break those left behind especially their parents . I would say though in all of those events there wasn’t any hints of anything wrong before hand .
I don’t think social media helps at all and I think for all the ‘be kind ‘ things people post most of the time when people are really going through it they will get told nicely they will just need to get on with it or someone else has it worse .

People do not need to be mentally ill to be suicidal. I think many if not most people find that incredibly hard to believe but it is trie!
Often people will experience suicidal ideation due to psychosocial stress, relationship breakdown, debt, housing issues, substance misuse etc, however whilst there may be mental and emotional distress that does not mean the person is suffering from a mental illness. Mental health services are there to treat peopke with mental illness and simply cannot be a catch all For all societies failings!!

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