People ending their lives?

[girlfriend44]

Are more and more people giving up on life? Heard another suicide today and its going to be debated in Parliament tomorrow?

Is it because mental health services are poor, have they always been poor?
Is life just getting harder for people?
Or has it always been hard?

I can remember when suicide was rare now you hear it so much sadly.

In my case I'm not so much "thinking" blackness. I'm "feeling" and therefore "seeing" blackness. I hide away safe, focus my brain on that point in time and doing as little as possible, whilst the feeling subsides.

In my case I'm convinced it's my bodies reaction in some way to stress. Especially in the way it subsides gradually if I take "time out".

I don’t. ( you’ll be pleased to know - how rude!)

I don’t actually have the job anymore. But essentially it was my job to review. I based my post on ACTUAL findings. Everything I said there was true.

I think, decades ago, that it was also the policy that insurance firms didn’t pay out for life insurance, in suicide cases.

Families tried to get a different verdict, because as well as the stigma, the finances also came into play.

As a side note, I think it's the height of selfishness to expect someone to live in unbearable pain and distress for decades just to save you grieving.
It's a lot more than grieving.
People I love have died naturally, and my Dad killed himself. It's not the same process, at all.

My opinion is that it is a selfish thing to do. Some people think it isn't. We are all entitled to our thoughts.

Like a PP, my dad's suicide ruined the lives of my mother and sisters. I had a mental breakdown at 20 years old. My baby sister has been suicidal most of her life. The poverty we were plunged into, the social outcasts we become.

It's not easy being in a place where you think the only option is to end it all. It's also not easy being the person left behind. It's an awful life, full of guilt, unanswered questions, shame and much more.

But - there's no winners here, everybody loses.

What mental health service.... with all the money in the world thrown at it....would work?

People say we have poor MH service. I don't know what would help....counselling seems a waste of time

Is there anything to be debated here that does not require a TW these days?

No, it does not
Dear god

That is not correct - unless of course, you can back the statement up with published, peer-reviewed articles

Sorry if I read the room wrong with my trigger warning suggestion. Thought I was trying to be helpful. No need for all the sarcastic comments. (Especially on a thread with this subject matter).

I am sorry you have experience of the effect this has on people.
But to say it is selfish shows how little you understand people. You don't have to be having MH issues to want to end your life. Anything, illness, grief, boredom, alcoholism, drug addiction, can make you consider options
But we all should have the right to determine our time, place and manner of death (where possible), and it is more selfish for friends/relatives to make/want people who want to die, stay alive

I've personally suffered two close family suicides and I find some responses on here glib and trite. Don't try to be amusing on a thread about suicide. It's a new low!

I think the data shows that rates are not increasing, there was obviously a Covid blip. My brother took his like in 2021. Also January is a month which people struggle. March is another believe it or not. We think Spring. They think it's another year of life I just can do.

I’ve attempted a few times but the early ones were where I was quite young. This year I had quite a long period where I was catatonically depressed and pretty much the only reason I didn’t do it was because my housemates would have to come across me somehow after.
To OP: mental health services have deteriorated and wait lists have increased. But eight years ago the wait list for an ADHD assessment was two years - that’s the assessment, not the help. They were crap then too. I’m currently waiting for help for stuff which includes but is not limited to alcohol related stuff, so I could put myself on a path to a very early death. I’m on a path for an alcohol/mental health specialist unit and even though I might die in the interim I’m told to keep drinking and wait for the help.

@FatBack2023 yes after my father took his own life I thought 'it's not a selfish act' but then after a second family member I likened it to a terrorist detonating a bomb and my children being caught in the explosion. That analogy doesn't sit easily with some people but that's my reality.

I'm old enough to remember when suicides were not allowed a church burial, or if they had one, they were laid to rest in an undesecrated part of the cemetery
And it was illegal to attempt suicide until 1961:
Before the Suicide Act 1961, it was a crime to die by suicide, and anyone who attempted and survived could be prosecuted and imprisoned, while the families of those who died could also potentially be prosecuted.

I think suicide and mental health issues are more openly discussed these days so there is more visibility.

I think so many people are having a tough time as well (Covid, cost of living crisis, less funding for health and social services) and it makes sense that more people would find themselves in crisis.

I hope there will continue to be more awareness of mental health issues and less stigma and that we can improve services.

As for assisted dying I think we really need to have an adult conversation on this as a country, rather than just bow to the religious belief that people should not end their life.

I think it is perfectly right that people who are in incredible pain because of medical issues that will never get better and have no quality of life should have the right to end things with dignity and get the support to do it.

As for suggesting a 'trigger warning', that's just unnecessary nannying, the title says it all.

Also to the people saying that suicide is a selfish act: you have to try to understand that when someone gets to that stage it is because they can see no other way out and are likely no longer rational. Suicide appears like the only solution to achieve peace and something that would actually make the people in your life better off. I made plans to end my life a few months ago. At the time I had lost all hope, my brain and body were not functioning anymore and all I could think of was that nothing in my life would ever get better and I wanted the pain to finally end. I was no longer rational. Thankfully at the last minute I managed somehow to reach for help. My GP and the crisis team saved my life and with medication my thoughts stabilised themselves and I came out of that hole. My point is my mind before that was literally 'gone' so there is no 'selfishness' if you have a reached a point where your thoughts have gone completely haywire and you are no longer a rational human being...

I think it is talked about more nowadays.

When I was a kid my next door neighbour died by suicide. I didn't even know this until I was an adult. I knew he'd died, obviously, but people studiously avoided talking about it. It was all 'died suddenly' and 'what a shame' and exchanging looks. Very different to other deaths where I remember things like poor x had a heart attack / died in their sleep / got run over /had a stroke.

Suicide was treated like a dirty secret. A word that must not be spoken out loud. It was seen as an act of weakness and cowardice. I now know that his wife felt ashamed! Can you imagine. Your husband goes out and hangs himself and society is such that what you feel is shame? It's horrendous.

Could posters not use the word ‘commit’ for suicide please.

Mental health services are currently inadequate as a rule and there needs to be a national review. People are being left with nothing because provision just doesn’t exist.

It’s complex and there is not a one size fits all solution, all the short term therapy in the world is not going to make the blindest difference for some people, equally a medical model isn’t going to help someone with a personality disorder or complex PTSD. But everyone is expected to fit into the model which has been created and if they don’t, they’re labelled as the problem rather than looking at what will work. The concept of having capacity to make that decision is awful and is being trotted out by people who are either burnt out, don’t care, or have misunderstood the boundaried approach which is used for people with some personality disorders.

The rates haven’t gone up particularly, lots of people on here have already explained why numbers might look that way. Sadly I think they will though given the current context.

Regardless of overall figures, every single life lost to suicide is tragic and has ripples far beyond what the person is able to see when they take that decision. Much moreso than death by other causes

While this is a good point, it probably needs context for people who don’t understand the issue.

the expression committed suicide is considered problematic, as it implies the act of suicide is a crime (as it historically has been) or a sin (in religion). The verb commit deepens the emotional pain surrounding this sensitive but important subject—thickening the barriers to talking openly about it. Now that we approach mental illness just as that, as an illness, rather than a moral failing, mental health experts and suicide prevention specialists recommend using the phrase, died by suicide. Just as someone can die of heart disease, using the phrase to die by suicide allows us to communicate more compassionately—and accurately—about those who have passed

The key difference is that your nan had enough physical/social support to work 2 jobs despite having 3 children.

There's always been challenges in life, but over the years the trend has shifted from being physically and financially hard, to emotionally and socially hard. I would view the latter as much more of a suicide risk.

My brother took his life last year. We were not close and I hadn’t seen him in a long time. While I am upset of course I’m also angry with him as my mother whom he was very close to is completely devastated and
I’m left to try and make sure she’s not another suicide case. My family is complex and it’s a complete nightmare tbh. Also the way he did it was nothing short of horrific and I can’t stop thinking about the young girl who found him. I’m not saying all suicide is selfish but my brother was selfish all his life, never giving a thought to anyone else and he was selfish in death. My parents lives are over, they are only in their 60’s and my little nephew grows up without a dad. There is a selfishness in it in some cases.

Thank you @ChocolateCakeOverspill

It certainly did happen and was occasionally mentioned in hushed tones.

I've been suicidal and now work in mh services.

The way I'd describe it is like jumping from a burning building.

I knew I'd probably die, was scared of the pain of the method etc but it seemed much better than the pain of the flames. It's that staying in my life, and body that felt like it was on fire just wasn't an option. I couldn't focus on anything else but the pain of the fire

Others (like on this thread) would tell me to hang in there, the fire will die out probably. People have way worse fires and live!

The problem is the fire is invisible, no one can see the difficulties you face, the routes blocked or the feel the heat.

In my case that also slightly blinded me, I couldn't for example think of others and how it would impact them because all I could think about was getting out of the building.

Part of my depression also blinded me to the fact that my family would care. I genuinely believed that they would be better without me, and even if I didn't I'm not sure I could have stayed in that pain for them

The problems are also systemic. Mental health services are such a small piece of the puzzle, I often feel like I am being asked to make the untolerable, tolerable.

We get people with incredible social stressors, deprivation etc that we simply have no control over

Sometimes it's like working in an asthma center and treating patients only for them to return to a very moldy house

For those saying "what can mental health services do" in my experience a hell of a lot.

My mum has had several attempts. Her first as a small child is identifying so I won't say what she did, but was silly child logic that at worst would cause a tummy ache. I think because her sibling died of illness and she was told she went to sleep and was happy now my mum wanted to do the same whenever life got hard.

I don't know the details of any other attempts, but know that as a young adult she was admitted into a psychiatric institution for a short while. She describes this as "terrifying" and as a consequence she did not attempt again for several decades or did she seek help for the depression I now realise she suffered from throughout my childhood.

In her 60s she tried again, almost succeeded. Blue lighted to hospital and the staff happily told me she'd be released in 2 hours. I was shocked, how could I keep her safe. It was obvious she would try again. She'd always been open that if health got too much she would take her own life. Luckily she had caused too much damage and couldn't be released, spending a week in intensive care and a week on a ward. Whilst in intensive care she refused all treatment for a while and was lucky to make it.

Thankfully being in hospital gave her access to a psychiatrist and she then moved to a psych ward, before being discharged with a year of CMHT support.

A decade later she is doing well and her MH is "the best it's ever been".

Compared to a Facebook friend who wasnt admitted and died horrifically after her 5th attempt whilst suffering from post birth psychosis and a family friend who died of frailty after months without a section following becoming unwell from ceasing her long term antipsychotic meds. She was sectioned shortly before her death, but sadly it was too late.

So I strongly disagree that the quality and availability of care doesn't make a difference.