Has there always been incel alphas or is this new?

[Riddlemethisone2]

Specifically the mentality Not the terms.

i just don’t recall even 5 years ago the internet being such a dark dark place for misogyny. I follow a few parody accounts online (unexpectedlyfun for instance) and just the things these ‘alpha’ males say…Did this mentality always exist but just the promise of Andrew Tate and then TikTok make it far more prominent?

I’m mid 30s and whilst obviously misogyny is not a new phenomenon but the sheer venom of these guys, how the basically advocate grooming, abuse etc I don’t recall the internet and social media being this dire?

Yep, I remember my friend group of about 10 (male, obvs) teenagers had at least 2 of them with similar views. Just didn't have the name. Over time they left/were pushed out of) our group

there’s also certain family you tubers that are buying into the Andrew Tate crap.

the dad of the ingham family.. Chris.

Very worrying as he has six children, 5 of whom are young girls.

The red pill/manosphere movement was very much a fringe movement. Tate made it mainstream.

Incels though are men who can't get women.

The things you see that sexually pleasing a woman is submissive, that sex with a condom means you’re gay, that women need be shown whose boss with force and what they define as hoeflation. The venom is quite startling

Wait, does Andrew tate encourage abuse / grooming? I've seen his controversial views but nothing about this

Misogyny is probably the most persistent, widespread discrimination, throughout time and geography. The second any culture gets fixed agriculture (and sometimes before), women are utterly buggered.

Andrew Tate didn't invent it, they just found another platform.

I don’t know about his specifically but men of his ilk

it seems a common trope to justify a 40 year old man with an 18 year old as ‘biologically normal’

^ he definitely encourages abusvie gaslighting behaviour, telling a woman to shut the fuck up, if she caught him cheating because she still gets to live in the penthouse

(not touching the sex trafficking rumours)

@beststepforward Tate's philosophy is not about getting women to have sex with you with sex as the main goal. It's about getting a woman to have sex with you in order for her to develop an attachment to you, so you can exploit her for financial gain (getting her to go on camera and you keep the proceeds, etc.). It is jaw droppingly misogynistic and depressing. Women aren't even sex objects, they're merely tools by which to increase your money and status. He is depraved.

"Alphas" is just a rebrand for aggressive, rapey men. We're not wolves.

Of course not invented but I’d not really heard such views before, I’d of course heard the ‘woman’s work’ ‘slut shaming’ but not the training your woman to behave with sex as a reward, refusing sexual pleasure (not prioritising sure) but flat refusal as to not empower her too much… perhaps it was felt but seldom said (at least in my circles)

I need to get my eyes checked as I read that as incel alpacas and had to do a double take!

Probably more lovable though 🤣

Agreed!

This crap has been going on for years longer than that. It's well over ten years ago I was reading blogs shredding the manosphere and its rabid misogyny.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001jg1t

This is a good introduction for the uninitiated, but it's hard to stomach.

@MrsTerryPratchett couldn't agree more.

I think the internet just makes it more visible.

If you spend most of your time with decent blokes, you don’t hear these attitudes.

more commonly though, there’s stuff that men will say to each other in private that they’d never say in front of women.

when I was in my 20’s, I never appreciated how much men hated me for being female. Looking back I can see their dismissiveness and aggression for what it was.

misogyny is the logical conclusion of the patriarchy

How can someone be an incel and an alpha?

Many (not all) of his view were just the norm at one point, quite normal for 30 somethings to take 18 year old brides, quite normal for men to be boss, not saying it's right but traditionally this was the case

Alphas tend to be the ones who get all the women.

Well yes, hence my question.

The catholic church.

Remember men have always pimped women too, it's just now there is now we have internet, it's in every teenagers pocket

The patriarchal incel alphas of the Church came up with this:

will you have this woman to be your wife; to live together in the covenant of marriage? Will you love her, comfort her, honour and keep her, in sickness and in health; and, forsaking all others, be faithful to her as long as you both shall live?

Empty words in many cases.

There have always been men who hate and blame women for everything wrong with their lives, who see women as objects they are entitled to use, as subhuman beings who's only purpose is to serve them. I also think that the internet has provided a perfect environment for these kinds of ideas and feelings to fester and spread to vulnerable men young and old. I imagine it may feel empowering to men who feel ignored and left behind. It coincides with a time when women have more freedom than ever to not marry or have kids if they choose not to. These women do not need male partners for survival and so more and more of them choose to be single or even having / raising a child alone over being with a man who is a liability.

I think the incel or red pill ideology offers a cathartic narrative to these men and creates a way to scapegoat all their negative feelings and personal failings onto women, which is easier than facing up to their own short comings as men. I think most of these men just stew in their rooms and are probably terrified of women but we have seen cases where some resort to violence and even mass murder and there are some who take the ideas of the red pill / incel ideology and use it as an excuse to use and abuse women and it perpetuates sexist stereotypes and outdated patriarchal attitudes towards women.