Has there always been incel alphas or is this new?

[Riddlemethisone2]

Specifically the mentality Not the terms.

i just don’t recall even 5 years ago the internet being such a dark dark place for misogyny. I follow a few parody accounts online (unexpectedlyfun for instance) and just the things these ‘alpha’ males say…Did this mentality always exist but just the promise of Andrew Tate and then TikTok make it far more prominent?

I’m mid 30s and whilst obviously misogyny is not a new phenomenon but the sheer venom of these guys, how the basically advocate grooming, abuse etc I don’t recall the internet and social media being this dire?

Women were viewed as secondary for so long, had no standing society, that it was very very easy to treat them like absolute shit. And in the catholic church at least (this is the only one i have personal experience of), this was still going on into the 2000s. Public shaming of women who left their abusers. Women who had done absolutely nothing wrong. The shit they came out with during the marref and abortion ref. I respect everyone's right to have a religion should they wish to, but they can get to fck if they think i'll respect their religion when my mum was treated like that. And her after serving the church for years. No religion deserves unquestioning loyalty.

Slightly different but about 20 years ago it was all about The Game - a book showing men how to manipulate women in order to get them to date them. Including "negging". That definitely felt like the predecessor to Tate et al. It wasn't so openly vitriolic but it was very anti respect of women

You are right, it certainly doesn't. The ironic thing is that the Church is held up by women. I am hoping that this current generation of young women are less likely to take crap - I'm certainly seeing it in my own daughter.

We don't have religion in our house. Child is in an Educate Together, so gets exposure to a few of them. If she turned around in the morning and said she wanted to explore religion, i wouldn't stop her, but i wouldn't neccessarily hold back (to a point, she's young) on my reasons for my disdain for the catholic church.

If anyone is Ireland, Katie Hannon is covering the role of the church now. Rte 1.

you've just reminded me of the bit in HHGTTG where someone says that coming down from the trees was a mistake

I know what you mean though, accumulating more wealth than you can carry will always lead to problems

I’m sorry for your suffering and that of your mother. The behaviour of the Catholic Church in Ireland beggars belief. I cannot get past the institutionalised cruelty of it all, and the advantage the Church seems to have taken of the pious and those made desperate by poverty or circumstance. It angers me that women were so horrifically mistreated for getting pregnant, and nothing was said about the fathers. You’d be forgiven for thinking that women impregnate themselves.

I have struggled to understand how People marched their own daughters into those homes and accepted the services of the laundries, but I think it is because they were taken in by the church’s false pretences.

Thank you. It was collusion between church and state. It's not so much of a thing now, but the majority of schools are still catholic. We didn't baptise our daughter, and i remember a very 'uncatholic' friend being horrified by that because of schools. We very much went out of our way, against all advice, to not baptise her and to only get her in to ETs. We are squeaky bum time now hoping to get her into the ET secondary, i think we'll get there but it's not guaranteed. My daughter actually said she felt uncomfortable in one of the secondaries she visited with all the religion. And that doesn't come from us, we don't b*tch about religion in the home at all.

I'm baffled by this too

OP where are you hearing the term please?

I know language makes no sense these days but this one is really odd.

I think essentially it's two different ways of saying 'desperate for a shag'.

I thought the alphas were getting lots of women? So by definition, they can't also be incels.

They might say that, doesn't make it true! They seem terribly insecure. Bless em.

The incels tend to refer to (self described) Alphas as Chads, and the women that sleep with Chads as Stacey.

It gets much weirder. I cannot recommend enough that you don’t Google Dogpilling.

None of this is particularly new and early internet (god I miss MSN messenger) was really the springboard for everything from Q to incels to Tate and, of course, much worse. It’s all radicalisation of one stripe or another, with mass communications in a way that was unthinkable a few decades back being the catalyst. Some people grow out of it, some don’t. The trick is finding the Donts before they do something bad…

@Tukmgru "The incels tend to refer to (self described) Alphas as Chads, and the women that sleep with Chads as Stacey."

that's my understanding too. Pretty sure "incel alpha" isn't a thing.

Maybe the OP meant 'incels and alphas'??

Incel/alpha are two sides of the same coin. I wouldn't believe half the shite the 'alphas' come out with tbh. Sad fuckers who are insecure in their masculinity.

Incels despise Chads because they're regarded as vacuous meatheads who inexplicably get females. However, the females the Chads manage to get are regarded as fairly unworthy as they're promiscuous, dimwitted and not very obedient. Incels are generally on a mission to improve themselves to the point where they can undergo a magical metamorphosis into a Sigma male. Sigma males are the epitome of manhood and worthy of true respect. Sigma males are able to obtain acceptable females - non promiscuous, obedient, pure and worthy - which the incels would love to have.

Incels won't accept that they're sad Betas, only potential Sigmas. They spend their lives doing secret exercises to obtain the right physique, drinking protein powder and doing facial exercises to get rid of any weak chins, overbites or chubbiness.

Incels are invariably sad losers who end up alone, bitter and drink too much. They tend to live on a diet of pizza and porn, have dead end jobs and have dubious personal hygiene.

Who needs to get killed on the battlefield when you can get murdered at home by your husband, father, brother? When you can die in childbirth but have no right to control your own fertility?

Men also suffer at the hands of patriarchy, no-one has ever denied that. But it 100% exists to control and exploit women, primarily women's ability to bear children. Think of all the wars of succession that tore this country apart in the middle ages; all fundamentally about whose son would sit on the throne after all the combatants were dead. Patriarchy exists mainly so men can be sure (or as sure as they ever can be) who their children are. For that to be possible, women's sexuality and freedom of movement had to be rigourously curtailed.

What defenders of the patriarchy like yourself always miss the point of when trotting out the "but men had to fight in wars!", as if it proves that women are privileged in patriarchy and not oppressed, is that the people making the wars were in the main, other men. Just as when the epidemic of femicide is raised "men are far more likely to die of violence", then yes, that's true - at the hands of other men. The issue always remains men's aggression, men's struggle for dominance, and all that usually boils down to a fundamental evolutionary fury that to fulfil their one critical function from an evolutionary point of view - to reproduce - they need to control or placate women.

@IHS going to guess we both work in the same field 🤣. I’m sure we’ve met at a round table somewhere…

that was what I mean and these ‘alphas’ are self proclaimed ‘alphas’ in the first place like you said just insecure little losers who project their hate (likely for themselves) onto women.

why oh why posters are getting tied up in the terms when the point was that sort of ‘masculinity’

They’re not alphas. They’re standard dregs of men who’ve managed to figure out where a gym is to look more alpha but are really still sad little nerds who couldn’t attract midges in a Scottish summer.

sad little nerds who couldn’t attract midges in a Scottish summer.

😂😂😂

@DonnaBanana that's perfect!

Andrew Tate rehashed some
manosphere content eg Rollo Tomassi in a format that was popular with teen boys.

I don’t think one can be an incel and an alpha. You could possibly be celibate and an alpha (or a sigma), but you can’t be involuntarily celibate and an alpha.

It's always been there but the anonymisation of the internet makes it much more prevalent.

As Oscar Wilde said "give a man a mask and he'll tell you the truth".

P.s. I realise the irony of saying that on an anonymous forum 😅

He's currently facing charges for rape, human trafficking, and forming an organised crime group to sexually exploit women