Has there always been incel alphas or is this new?

[Riddlemethisone2]

Specifically the mentality Not the terms.

i just don’t recall even 5 years ago the internet being such a dark dark place for misogyny. I follow a few parody accounts online (unexpectedlyfun for instance) and just the things these ‘alpha’ males say…Did this mentality always exist but just the promise of Andrew Tate and then TikTok make it far more prominent?

I’m mid 30s and whilst obviously misogyny is not a new phenomenon but the sheer venom of these guys, how the basically advocate grooming, abuse etc I don’t recall the internet and social media being this dire?

I suppose through tates teachings incels can become alphas or 'top G's

I'm sure some men had these thoughts pre-internet, but there was no medium by which to share them with other vile men.

If you sat in the pub and said these things, you'd just look like a massive twat and everyone would avoid you. Even if some men secretly agreed with you, it would be social suicide to say so. The anonymity of the internet makes it permissible I think.

Empty words or a solemn vow.

I take you, to be my wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, and this is my solemn vow.

A solemn vow taken by generations of men who would have believed that if they broke their vow they would have to answer to God - the ultimate Patriarch or, alternatively, the ultimate creation of the Patriarchy.. Now we don't believe in God, but they did and they feared him. And they feared his hell.

And this is my solemn vow.

Then they're not incel?

My father had this sort of attitude to women. He basically saw them as sub human. And he did have his sorry little drinking buddies to agree with him. It wasn't all that uncommon not too long ago.

You've lost me now, sorry.

It wasn't the Catholic Church in Rochdale ...

Of course not. Two wrongs don't make a right though do they?

And this is what we get from the normalisation of porn and 'kink'. Sorry if it hurts anyone's feelings, but that is genuinely what I believe

Speaking of Rochdale, did anyone watch the pretty harrowing Silent Witness 2 parter, staring the guy from Scorpion as the groomer. It was called something like Love Me? Anyway, it was showing how an Incel might work in setting up girls.

The Overton window has shifted a LONG way to the right since (and partly due) to Brexit and Trump.
An inevitable consequence is the the extremist groups get more extreme and emboldened.
The next decade or so is going to be bad.

The original female vows included the word "obey"

Misogyny has existed since the dawn of time.

Throughout history, and even still today in some parts of the world, women have been treated as nothing more than servants and baby makers for men.

I saw a video on Tiktok today, and it was a woman who considers herself to be a "tradwife". She gets up every morning at the crack of dawn and does her makeup, hair and dresses to the nines so her husband has a "well-presented" wife to wake up to. Whilst he is at work (because she's not allowed to work) she tidies the house from top to bottom, goes to the shop to buy ingredients for dinner, spends hours preparing said dinner so it's on the table for him coming through the door. She even changes her outfit, makeup, and jewellery in the evening for him coming home.

This woman has talked about how wives should be "submissive" to their husbands as that's what the Bible teaches. Her only goal in life is to be a wife, a homemaker, and a mother.

I mean, fair enough if that's what she wants to do, it's her life. But it does make me feel disappointed that there's women out there who think the only thing they have to offer to the world is cleaning up after a man, looking good for him and birthing his children.

I think it's a damaging narrative that only reinforces these men's ridiculous beliefs tbh.

I know, but everyone seems to be quick to blame the Catholics. They are an easy target as it isn't PC to say that Islamic men have also been running grooming groups. I referenced Rochdale because it was allowed to run for so long because people were too frightened of being called racist to stop it.

I have personal experience of the catholic church being damaging. So i will speak about that, as i can in the absolute knowledge that i know what i'm talking about. The Rochdale stuff can surely be spoken about as it was in the news. Tbh i get a pain in my face hearing catholics doing the 'woe is me' card, the crimes the church has committed are hideous. Mother and baby homes. Mass graves. Child sex abuse. The catholic church have absolutely no moral authority imo.

Whilst you are absolutely correct about the definition of InCels, they are fuelled by misogyny and believe Tate's propaganda so they are utterly linked.

The Islamic ideology of sex and the ‘nature of women’ (I know, I know) is very different to the Catholic one though.

I’m actually married to a Pakistani man. I Think Rochdale actually has a lot more to do with diaspora culture than religion per se there is a lot of us v them mentality and then there’s a culture of boys getting away with murder whilst girls are kept on a tight leash (of course that’s misogynistic) it’s creates the same ‘red pill’ mentality as we can see on some of these videos, men can sleep around and women must be pure. The men can drink, smoke and sleep around but be redeemed later by marrying a ‘pure’ woman, they’ll still carry on with this behind her back. Plus then an added othering of white women and certain parts of British culture despite partaking in them. Very toxic mix

Always thought that Richie and Eddie (Bottom) and Kevin and Perry are the original incels.

@Chickenkeev & @Riddlemethisone2 it's so complicated and yet so simple, as someone said on another post on the same subject, it comes down to girls don't matter. Whether it's victims of grooming gangs, at the hands of priests, fundraising celebrities or film producers, these things are allowed to happen because others stand by and do nothing.

They did. But Husbands were expected to treat their wives well.

Historically wives had to obey their Husbands but they didn't have to obey their sergeants, or their captains or their field marshals, because historically women were spared the agony of the battlefield.
The modern MNer worries about dispatching a mouse with a broken back. Imagine being an Englishman being called to face the invading Scottish Jacobite army in 1745.

These were the observations of an Australian traveller to Afghanistan in the late 1940s/early 1950s: "Afghanistan is a land of desert mountains with occasional fertile valleys, a militant Mohammedan kingdom of about 12 million people, ruled by His Majesty Zahir Shah. The king is a young man whose progressive ideas meet with the disapproval of the powerful and fanatic mullahs.......Tribal wars are so common, the women wear red pants (trousers) so they won't get shot." Even in Afghanistan there was a significant advantage in being a woman.

Afghanistan in the the 1940s. England in the 1740s.

The Patriarchy wasn't a device hell bent on abusing and exploiting women. Frequently it was the men who were abused and exploited.

I have nothing useful to add, but just wanted to share that I misread the title as "incel alpacas" and was intrigued!

But yes unfortunately I think there has. See the book The Game from years back.

The unfortunate byproduct of “inclusion” is that the bloke we would all have rolled our eyes at as a weirdo is now suddenly being given a platform and a voice. And he has found his tribe on the internet.

(more often than not he is also “stunning and brave”, but that’s a hole other thread)

When times are uncertain and difficult people look for scapegoats.
If only the Jews or the feeeemales would behave properly we could all live in paradise. Easier than looking at their own behaviour.

@SophiaElise I do think women should fight in all the wars they start.

Germaine Greer, The Female Eunuch, 1971

Women have very little idea how much men hate them.