Why doesn’t the country support having children?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Just seen an article on The Guardian about the 15 free hours for childcare for under 2’s and how the whole system is a mess.

I’m just starting to lose hope that this country doesn’t support working families anymore?

AIBU and need to think more positively, or have we screwed up massively by not supporting families?

The Guardian article which I read.

In London you could be paying 80%+ of a £100k salary to have two in nursery.

So TBF, fair enough for them to complain really.

Yes it is.

We need children to support the country. They are our most precious commodity and should be supported by everyone.

What kind of shit society that you promote doesn’t invest in its children?

I was waiting for this comment, you didn't disappoint!

Do you think it would be ok that people in general stop having kids so therefore there's no new little people coming into the world? You know we need people to keep the place running? Shockingly even in 18-20 years from now when there's jobs to fill and things to do we will still need people coming out of college and uni to do these jobs? No?

Surely as AI develops then the need for taxes to find out old age will decrease. We won't need to pay for people to do things that AI can do more quickly and efficiently. This could be a game changer when it comes to the services that old people use such as carers and medical staff.

We also need to factor in the fact that AI will be able to keep people healthier for longer and therefore 'old age' may look very different to what it looks like now.

I’m wondering when we started to see the real impact of mother’s working full time? I know I went to nursery p/t as a child and my grandmother did 2/3 days childcare, mum said it was still expensive and they struggled until I went to school. I think that the system is just not set up to account for women working f/t. I would like to stay at home until my son goes to school but it’s not financially viable since our mortgage went up last year. Unless the government sets up their own nurseries there is no real fix for this a private nurseries are a business and will always be looking for profit and to be honest I don’t think they pay their workers enough as it is.

Tr being a single person on your own, then let me know how much support you feel you get from the government then.

Absolutely fuck all. We are just there to pay for everything else, but when a single person with no kids needs help....nothing. Nada. Fuck all.

OR an even better question - "why don't we pay people a fair wage that they can afford to live on and support their families"

Child Benefit, Child Tax Credit, partially free childcare, maternity leave.... dear Lord, how much more do you want? Taxpayers are already subsidising the lifestyle choices of parents (& yes, I know we need a new generation to be the taxpayers of the future). But, really, it's not as if parents are left completely high and dry.... you chose to have children, and they're your responsibility.

The issue here is, that with the high cost of childcare / cost of living, hardly anyone would be able to afford children.

Teachers, nurses - do we really want these people to be having no kids at all because they can’t afford childcare / to stop working for a few years?

Seems a bit of a dystopian view of the UK’s future.

Fortunately we are only currently paying for 2 days and only for term time, we haven’t hit our cap yet! I’d understand if we were “rich” but our household income is only £60k; yet because we have one higher earner and one lower earner (£48k and £12k) we pay way more tax than most people on £60k per house; so to then hear that our childcare is “tax free” is laughable!

Yeah, this country needs to invest more in its children.

If only those who could afford it have children I imagine most of the working classes etc wouldn't be able to. Preserve only for the wealthy.

As for those saying its not for everyone else to support families do you take the same approach of supporting pensioners?

Children are the future. They should be properly invested in. Yes people should live according to their means but the cost of nursery vs average wage is ridiculous. No one begrudges supporting schools. Parents aren't asking you to pay for nappies, prams etc or to baby sit. We pay for 16-18 year old to go to school but heaven forbid a 2 year old nursery fees should be covered when the first 5 years are arguably the most important 🙄

A good point, that could help. I think overall birth rate declining might not be so bad as it would be without this

It is stopping people having children or at least more than one in my friendship group from school anyway.

These are bright women who mostly work in professional jobs/ run their own business and have decided 1 is all they can afford. So then what happens to population size?

I think when the free hours come in for 9 months plus it’ll be about right. A fair split between parents and the state paying.

They are supported a lot lot more than when I had kids. Mine are 20,20 and 23 now. When I had the twins my nursery fees were over £2000 a month just for them, plus also the fees for our older one. I had to give up work as we couldn’t afford it. We got no support from the Government at all.

So I think things are looking up for working families especially now with all the free meals at school for younger years, extended maternity leave etc.

@BeaRF75 parents are tax payers too, so if you’re paying in the higher tax bracket there is no entitlement to anything including child benefit so therefore it’s evens out.

If there is private healthcare / schooling too then parents are also paying for services they don’t use.

More funding has to come from somewhere because we need people in work and we need people to have children.
While it's true there is room for improvement compared to other countries it's not true that there is no support.
There is more financial subsidy for having children compared to when mine were born in the 90s. There wasn't any subsidised childcare, my entire salary went on nursery fees and it would have been more financially viable to give up work for five years.

By bearing children, women do vital work for the State by creating new citizens. That's why it's in the State's best interests to support them.

I think this is an interesting trend, as I am seeing it too (London based).

The economics of having two children are complex for even quite well-earning couples. The cost of nursery, affording a big enough property.

I am from quite a middle class background and many of my friends are one of 3 or 4 children. I can’t see any of my friends having that many children - the cost would be insane (even affording a house big enough), and stopping work isn’t really an option with the cost of living.

Children don't vote and old people do :)

I'd say overall there is a move towards more of individuals than community - a lot more sense of resentment that Hayley across the road gets her nursery fees paid for while Emily, who doesn't have preschool children, doesn't get something of equal value from the state. Why is Emily paying in and Hayley getting free things etc etc?
Rather than recognising that Hayley's needs are different and greater at the moment and one day Emily might need dementia care or be hit by a car and require extensive care OR that nothing bad will ever happen to Emily and she will have a nice, uneventful life that happens not to cost the tax payer much (which is also good for her)

I think we've just got an increasingly enhanced suspicion that other people are getting more than we are and IT MUST BE STOPPED.

Also property costs and land value - one reason nurseries are so expensive is they must pay enormous levels of rent in London, south east and other expensive areas.

I agree OP.

I think a lot of families - and definitely a lot of those on Mumsnet - are lucky to have at least one person in the household with a very, very highly paid job, and so while childcare is still expensive it is not the be all and end all.

Whereas for many of us lower down the ladder, it's the difference between being able to work or not, or have a second child or not, or being able to move or not, or being able to go on holiday or not.

While obviously I'm grateful to get any help with the bill, taking 2 days a week down from £750 to £600 is still leaving a massive chunk to pay. It's effectively like having a second mortgage/rent to pay for many.

Sorry but we aren't and have never been properly supported whether it's child care,sick pay, pensions etc the list goes on. Because no government looks after it's own people regardless of what party

You are being unreasonable to say "any more" when there used to be no help at all.

If you cant afford to bring up your children without additional support why bring them into a world where AI will mean there are no jobs for them here and climate change will mean mass migration?

I can see why the population is dropping but that is not necessarily a bad thing.