Why doesn’t the country support having children?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Just seen an article on The Guardian about the 15 free hours for childcare for under 2’s and how the whole system is a mess.

I’m just starting to lose hope that this country doesn’t support working families anymore?

AIBU and need to think more positively, or have we screwed up massively by not supporting families?

The Guardian article which I read.

Free hours has increased anyway

I had my first dc a while ago in Labour gov and free hours funding was lower

Well if you want a state pension etc we're going to need to start having more kids, we have an ageing population and the uk doesn't make it attractive to have kids

Smacks of "I didn't get help so why should you?" envy.

I’d be quite happy with my private pension thanks. The birth rate would still be high, without all the ridiculous ‘incentives’ people would just have to plan better.

@Pumpkinpie1 Surestart was great wasn’t it.

The government shouldn’t have to offer support no, however, there should be mechanisms in place so families can be entirely self sufficient.

There is a longer conversation as to what that looks like for sure, but when nursery costs are circa £3per month then reviews are needed.

Actually we have low birth rates which are only getting worse....

You can't plan better when there's SO much inequality

Smacks of ‘quit your whinge , why are you so entitled’? tbh.

( I did get some hours once they were 3 but made little different to the cost - I just don’t blame others in this way for choices I’ve made)

Well, that's the Tory/social conservative line.

Apart from families don't exist in a vacuum, underlying conditions determine how likely people are to have children, what the experience is like and ultimately how well the children do in terms of health and academic/career achievement.

When living costs and childcare costs and housing costs go sky high, child poverty increases - kids have worse diets and are more susceptible to disease then and later in life, do worse at school, worse in later careers, pay less tax - net negative impact on the state even if you take the human suffering element out of it.

Having kids is definitely a choice, it's a choice people are increasingly deciding not to make because of affordability. Which is why we have an ageing population and the need to bring in more immigrants to fill jobs - which people don't like either.

As to how you make informed decisions about costs - are you saying people should have predicted the rise in energy prices? Putin's invasion of Ukraine? Costs change and people get caught out.

What if you planned your maternity leave etc perfectly and then your husband loses his job? Life isn't always straight forward.

AI will probably change things and wipe out loads of jobs. Falling birthrate might not be so bad

I agree with you @NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting Childcare fees are horrific. And so are nursery prices. I saw a thread on here the other day where someone claimed they paid £50,000 a year for childcare - not sure if that was true, but if it was that is hilarious. Who would pay that? You could get a nanny for a third of that.

Also - me and DH got fuck-all childcare help in the 1990s, and no tax credits either, and we were fucking brassick for a decade. (We have 2 close together in age.) So it is good that there is a 30 hours free childcare.

But, as someone who has had no school age children since the late noughties, if you can get 30 hours free childcare, why does everyone not go for this? Why the complaints about high childcare fees if these hours are available for FREEEE???

Can someone explain this?

Also, 'we get great help - try going to America' is a stupid and unhelpful thing to say. It's akin to 'if you don't like it then leave' if you're unhappy in your job. Or if you are being hounded by nightmare neighbours, your landlord saying 'move house then! or a poster saying 'get fucking earplugs!'

And tax free should truly mean tax free. I pay 40% tax yet my “tax free” childcare is actually still taxed at 20%.

We planned to have children - saved money to cover my maternity leave, saved enough to cover a few months of nursery, but then suddenly everything has shot up in cost. Nursery announced they are increasing fees by £200 a month with a month’s notice, interest rates are up from 4% to 6%, our weekly food shop has doubled, so has gas and electricity.

Circumstances change and we don’t make it appealing to have children. I wish we sorted the whole system so that we don’t have to send children to nursery full time, but that’s another conversation.

Thankfully Labour has access to a magic money tree so the NHS, childcare, teacher shortages, roads maintenance, care of elderly will all be fixed.

Tr being a single person on your own, then let me know how much support you feel you get from the government then.

The question is always who pays for the extra support.

Because it is not magically appearing out of nowhere.

If the government wants to support people it should do so by reducing the cost of living for everyone. Lower house prices for a start would help. If people with kids didn't have to shell out stupid money for housing then they would have more money for other things.

100% agree! Huge support now for nursery, i was paying a huge amount when mine went part time. My mum said there was nothing when we were kids just the child benefit. Annoys me that people moan so much!

I’m really not sure it’s the systems fault you have to send another child to fill time provision.

Everyone is feeling the pinch with cost of living. Our mortgage has gone up 1k a month. We didn’t plan for that. But I’m not blaming anyone else or looking for someone else to fund it. I’m accepting the responsibility of my life choices and making it work.

There are a million things we can’t foresee , I agree on that. But we can’t expect others to always fix stuff. That’s just not real life!

30 hours only kicks in when kids are three (unless you don’t work - go figure!) and can only be used as and when the nursery states. For example, my daughter got 1-5pm 5 days per week year round.

Im a teacher so I actually only needed term time, but I needed full days. So I had to pay for 8-1 out of my own pocket. Then they wouldn’t hold the space for me unless I paid it year round too. So I had loads of childcare I had to pay for that I didn’t need.

Other people got term time full days but needed all year. It was crazy.

There was an air of smugness, and 'I'm all right Jack!' in that poster's post wasn't there? There by by the Grace of GOD go you @Youcannotbeseriousreally

A woman I used to know planned her baby after many years of not wanting one - and had her at 36, with the plan that her mum would have the baby 4 days a week whilst she returned to work. 5 weeks after the baby was born, her mum - only 59 years old - died from a brain haemorrhage.

She was obviously devastated at losing her mum, but also, no free childcare now. Ended up giving up work, and a year or so later her and her DH sold their big 4 bed detached house (had £50K equity at the time,) and moved into private renting. 2 years later they moved into social housing.

As you say, you don't know what curve balls life is going to throw at you!

@SheFliesLikeABirdInTheSky I think it’s because sadly on here a lot of the people moaning earn 100 grand a year. They tend to drip this in about halfway through after people have offered lots of sensible, helpful advice about what is available.

Best to ignore them, they are fine.

You still pay £60+ per day and the only help I get is 20% tax deduction and child benefit. When he turns 3 I’ll still need to pay for childcare to wrap around to allow me to work my full time job.

Im a teacher and I’m actually better off working less hours because my childcare costs exceed my wage. And I’m only paying for care for one child. My salary is £48k so I’m a fairly high earner; the discrepancy in wage for lower earners is even more stark. And that is where the issue lies.

Absolutely this - there is only so much 'support' to go around. Be a bit more grateful you have 'benefits' to help you.

Rubbish they don’t support families, we get a years mat leave, some countries get 6 weeks (this happened to French friends so just over the water), paternity leave, free childcare at some point, child benefit for lots. You do t have to pay for the birth of the child, it’s free, as it, god forbid, any hospital stay if born early.

Having children is a choice, if you can’t afford it don’t have them, or cut your cloth accordingly. It’s not up to the Government to fully support childcare

Social engineering since 1997 has eroded the traditional British family set up and devalued most of the traditional British societal values.
But let us go back as far as 1970 or thereabouts, when FIS was introduced, as the then government recognised that wages were not high enough to support the cost of living.

My partner and i both work (he works 48 hours a week - shift work & I work 20 hours in a finance assistant role alongside around 25-30 hours of uni work per week) and we get the full 30 hours of funded childcare and it's so helpful! saves us about £650 a month!