Why doesn’t the country support having children?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Just seen an article on The Guardian about the 15 free hours for childcare for under 2’s and how the whole system is a mess.

I’m just starting to lose hope that this country doesn’t support working families anymore?

AIBU and need to think more positively, or have we screwed up massively by not supporting families?

The Guardian article which I read.

@user1492757084 the demographic in my age group who are the ones retiring early did not go to university. Many started work at 16. So by 56 they have been working for 40 years.
Make pensions less attractive and people will just manage on less and be angry against the government.
Lots of people my age by the time they get a state pension would have been working for 51 years. And lots of people die in their fifties and sixties. I have seen too many people die, and others get cancer and serious illnesses. I have not had this luckily, but it is scary.

I know a number of people who retired at age 50 in the 1990’s and are still alive now, so it’s not a recent thing. They had final salary pensions in the private sector. One of them is my FIL who will have very soon been retired for longer than he worked.

And I suspect the people who are looking at this issue have zero understanding because they just assume everyone goes to university. Many middle class people now do a masters or PhD afterwards and do not start full time work until their mid or late twenties. When many of us had been working full time for 10 years by that stage.
You want to get people to work? Then at least understand the issue. I think a lot would go back to part time work for extra money if it was flexible and not awful work. So if it was possible to work just over winter and have the summer off. But the jobs out there for people who are not professionals with this level of flexibility usually require a level of physical ability that many people do not have.

I also personally know people under state pension age who do not work, but are not well enough to do most work. They don't get esa as they have been refused or gave up. One of these worked during the pandemic part time from home, but gave up once everyone had to commute into the office.
By late fifties and sixties various health complaints are fairly common. Things that cause fatigue or pain.

Pretty much everyone I know who did leave work in their 50s hadn't gone to Uni and as PP said often started work much earlier. They were also often doing unpaid care work of some sort for family - the kind that our society tends to need but overlooks.

Plus people who did go to university tend to have kids later - so if they are late 30 and early 40 - are they likely to want to retire with expensive teenagers and uni costs looming. Then there house prices it takes longer to save deposits so people start paying mortgages off later.

My IL started work at 15 and 16 - they had DH at 19/20 were child and mortgage free by their 40s - we are under a decade later having kids and buying house which now costs more relative to wages - it will be mid 50s before we are in same place.

I'm not sure how poorer health and increased death rates in 50s will intersect with later parenthood and later entry into house markets and workplaces.

I would say that there is more support for those having children, than there is for single, childless people. I fully agree we should be supporting those with kids, and their childcare - but those having the children also do need to take some responsibility. It's not everyone else's responsibility to take care of them!

For example, I am a single, sadly childless, person. All I get is my single person's Council Tax rebate. I will have to work until I'm at least 68 for my occupational pension. I am disabled, but not quite disabled enough to get anything. I worry about what funds I'll need for retirement. I've been working since I was 14 (weekends), and then about 0.5fte all the way through Uni. I've worked FT since I was 21.

We all need to take responsibility for our own life events - so we can help those who really can't; folks who are disabled, who have been left as single parents, etc.

My DP has been working since aged 12 and although still at school worked a lot of hours. DP is now 60.

My IL and DPs came of age in 1960s - the leaving age was 15 so they went into full time work as did most teenagers from their community very few went on to university and even less form their social group.

Leaving age was raised to 16 in 1972.

1990s saw an increase in numbers going to university - percentage of 18 year old going to university 24.7% in 2006 to 30.7% in 2015 and peaked at 38.2% in 2021. In England they are all supposed to be in some learning/training till 18 - not so in wales it's still 16 for leaving education though few do as there aren't the full time jobs at 16 to go into and few there are are poorly paid with little to no progression.

I wasn't trying to ignite some four Yorkshire men sketch who had it hardest - I was saying the world had changed. The way that's affected my family is my generation is later at reaching same miles stone events.

Its not about who had it hardest. But you can't begin to understand why people are stopping work in their fifties if you think they have only been working since their early or mid twenties. You also have to understand the type of work available to this demographic and why it may not be appealing. It is useless talking about consultants in their seventies still doing some consultancy work or even tradespeople only doing the bits of the job they like. These will be people who if working will be spending time in meetings where bullshit is talked, at their computer for hours and being measured on what they do, and hearing an old management fad being presented by senior management with new words as the latest amazing idea. It all gets kind of old.

I think it's unreasonable for people to just work say 30/35 years, i.e. early/mid 20s after Uni and then retire in their 50's. People living for say, 70-80 years on average who've only worked for less half that time is clearly unsustainable. Go back a few decades and most started their working lives in their mid/late teens and retired typically in their early 60s, so many would have worked 40-45 years and then typically didn't live as long in old age so didn't need as much pension/health/care.

You now need 35 yrs for NI contribution although I’m not sure this was always the case? One of the big problems is healthy life expectancy has not increased. Which decade are you referring too where everyone started work in their teens & retired in their early 60s but died soon after @User79853257976

I think with entering the workplace later, people need to be incentivised to work into their 60s.

im an older millennial who won’t get the state pension till 68. I went to uni but have paid NI contributions since I was 17 as the contribution required was tiny. So in theory I will pay 50 yrs of contributions. I don’t plan to work till my late 60s though.

I know a number of people who retired at age 50 in the 1990’s and are still alive now, so it’s not a recent thing. They had final salary pensions in the private sector. One of them is my FIL who will have very soon been retired for longer than he worked

yep, i’m public sector but the amazing pension scheme closed to new entrants whilst I was at uni. Some of my older colleagues pensions are insane!

I will be working until 67 unless they bring in means tested state pension. If they do that I will withdraw my small private pension and live on it until 67.

And i’m pretty sure there won’t be free prescriptions for over 60s when i’m 60

@alltootired I think that pension may go means tested

the not that

@HollaHolla
I'm interested in this "left as single parents" statement, this could be very broad. Thinking that relationships spontaneously breakdown and that those in the relationship are powerless to control events. Or quite narrow for example I have a friend who was widowed at 33 with a 3 and 4 year old. (Spare lorry wheel broke free on the motorway and went through the windscreen of his car).

When it comes to disability I had an accident which left me with paralysis of my left side and partially sighted. I couldn't do my old job which was quite physical and required lots of travel so I set up a business which I could do on the phone. Using speech to text when needed for notes etc.

I'm concerned that people put themselves in the disabled box and give up. I got quite a lot of my utility back of my left arm and leg through physiotherapy (swimming and gym). It's very possible to be productive with even quite severe disability if you put your energy and mind to it.

But presumably the goal of further education is to earn more when you enter the workforce; and thus those who are university educated are more likely to financially contribute more to society through taxation?

Thanks, but I don't really need advice on getting movement back. I've worked hard, and have a lot more than expected (hence not being disabled enough for help!) Once you have a broken part of a spinal nerve/spinal cord, it doesn't 'get better'. I work FT, and live alone. I manage.
I wish you well.

@alltootired

If you want to be working part time at 50 then this takes planning and effort for most ppl unless they were born wealthy.

If you left school at 16 and never went back to education then this is your choice. If you have a "bullsh*t" job this is also a result of your choices.

You also have to understand the type of work available to this demographic and why it may not be appealing . It is useless talking about consultants in their seventies still doing some consultancy

FIL is a builder - and had suffered joint damage since his 40s - and it is brick laying he's very skilled at - he takes on small build job in his 70 - not the lugging about just the laying - his mates are plasterers and one worked well into his 80s as loved plastering - everything had to be ready to go though.

As I said DH uncle was a gas fitter - and now drive for deliveries p/t.

My Dmum was forced out of retail in her 50 - I've worked retail jobs. MIL couldn't find factory work she'd done when let go in late 50 so did unsociable hours cleaning jobs till her then delayed due to government changes to women state pensions age. One of my siblings works in care industry - not a job they want to do when old.

Dh and I were born to very working class families - we did well academically so we have bosses who can do consulting in their 70s - and I'll say again I was pointing those people out at your previous insistence that well off people will never go back to work after they retire - they do and often more options to do so.

I poster earlier it already on table that by time I retire it may be state retirement age has been raised to 68 - it may happen and we'll just to deal with it. It may even be gone by time we get there - NHS dentistry long gone where we are.

My siblings haven't even been able to get on housing ladder and are left feeling lucky they manged to get HA housing. DH cousins are in private rented in their 40s and 50s still - so no idea how they'll pay ever increasing rent out of pensions.

I've had jobs I've hated as has DH - we've felt stuck but worked hard and made sacrifices and bided our time to get to betters one - our families at time told us we weren't special it's common and you work hard over time towards making changes so you are happy - as no-one else is going to do it for you.

All interesting posts, some of them very thought provoking.

From the side of the newly retired, I think quite a few of us who are in good health would enjoy some work, but I promise that there are not squadrons of employers waiting to hoover up the 50+. Most would require some re-skilling; vanishingly few would want to work full time and be at work's beck and call all hours. Heavy physical work wouldn't be an option for most, especially over 65s.

My DSis returned from a senior HR job in the ME when she was 60, and required to retire. All she could find in the UK was retail, and the demands grew more and more exacting as the company discovered how reliable and competent she was. Then it turned into "You must come in at 5:00am to fill shelves until 10, and tomorrow it will be 2pm until closing" and "do you want to be a supervisor?" Err, no, she replied, here's my resignation. So instead, she does some school drops and pick ups for her DGC and drops in daily to make sure our DM has groceries and a chat and helps organise the utilities etc because at 89, DM isn't good with IT beyond email and solitaire. I fear the local council won't know what's hit them if she stands for election as she's threatening!

DH is already working past retirement because he's reluctant to see the company he founded cease trading. It's successful, but too small and specialist to interest a buyer. And he has plans to start another after he has retired, because he thinks he'll be bored. No hobbies he's desperate to pursue and we can't spend all our lives on holiday. We're all in decent fettle, with some health issues but nothing chronic. Some of us have pensions, either state and/or company, and some are better than others: BIL has one state pension from working in Europe for about 10 years that is double his UK state pension. The UK state pension is very niggardly, but future generations will benefit from auto-enrolment systems if the state pension is scaled back.

@bessytedsy Then loads of people will just withdraw private pensions and stop working. When I was young pensions were sold as a top up to state pensions. Very few people I know would get more in a private pension than in a state pension. So no point having a private pension.
People in their fifties would be retiring in droves.

@ThinkingForward My job requires qualifications that I have. The bullshit is from management. Everywhere seems to be like this. Trust me as you get older it gets tiresome.

My DC with holiday jobs have been off rolled during term time partly I think so the firms can avoid auto enrolment of pension

Are these jobs that he works at during term time aswell or just during the holidays.