Why doesn’t the country support having children?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

Just seen an article on The Guardian about the 15 free hours for childcare for under 2’s and how the whole system is a mess.

I’m just starting to lose hope that this country doesn’t support working families anymore?

AIBU and need to think more positively, or have we screwed up massively by not supporting families?

The Guardian article which I read.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/ourpopulationwherearewehowdidwegetherewherearewegoing/2020-03-27

I don't know, but the birth rate isn't in proportion to the older population, and with that comes issues and problems, especially around retirement. if we don't have a higher birth rate there will not be enough workers to support the older generation in old age - as there are to many old people.

families aren't having babies due to the expense

I didn’t find this. I think Labour introduced the free childcare after 3. I don’t have it with Ds ( born under John Major) but did with dd ( born under Tony Blair)

Labour also have extra childcare credits and sorted the education system. I taught under Tory and Labour, l know which ones invested more.

And now you can’t even get a fucking dentist appointment for a child never mind childcare.

there will not be enough workers to support the older generation in old age

Won’t that alter as AI kicks in more

Thanks for that @SisterHyster SO it's not all it's cracked up to be. (This 30 hours free childcare.) Useful for some but not all. As I said, I do wonder why more don't use it, but as you say, it's only useful for some, sometimes.

Only letting it kick in when the child is 3 is shit. You will only have a small window when you can use it. Helpful. (NOT!) Having people be able to use it UP to 3 would be far more helpful!

.

The country ( government) doesn't support people really - it's not just children or families

Dentistry is private, and private will be the only way to get doctors soon , housing is for the wealthy

Number of free hours went up from 15 to 30 in around 2017

Also you have to work at least 16 hours to get the 30 hours.

A better question would be "Why are people having children they can't afford?"

It isn't up to the rest of us to provide for all the needs of other families.

The taxes pay for the health service, schools, family allowance, social services, sen support. That's enough.

We only had the number of DCs we could afford.

Yeah, Labour initiated the free hours though. The Conservative government before them did nothing.

Snd Labour were going to roll it out for 2 year olds. But David Cameron wasn’t going to do that was he?

@CwmYoy

The taxes pay for the health service, schools, family allowance, social services, sen support. That's enough.

These service are all dwindling unfortunately.

And 30 is better than 15. That reduction in cost was useful

BINGO! Where's my prize!

I wondered how long it would be before this mouldy old chestnut was unearthed. 🙄Took quite a number of posts. MUMSNET is slipping!!!

Won’t that alter as AI kicks in more

does AI pay tax, which in turn pay old age pension?

workers pay tax into the system and it gets used on pensions now, ( I think the government has 2 and a half days worth of pension at any one time) its not put aside for when you reach pension age

Living costs have increased. You can't take a child back to the shop when your rent and bills go up and food costs a whole lot more.

Having children is one of the basic things that humans do. Society needs people to have children. Most people have one or two.

Investment in early years and childhood results in adults who are more productive. Reduced risk of illness, increased productivity, etc.

That’s the kicker. We need to work out how to get tax from AI because it won’t stop advancing if we don’t

There was not enough thought into the detail, and it's not as if nursery places suddenly became in short supply.

@CwmYoy society works on reproducing, if we stop reproducing we run into many problems and issues. We pay towards families having children to keep society going, the same as we pay for old people care - we don't just kill them off when they get to 75

Apart from Scandinavian countries and Denmark which have a higher tax rate system which enables more support of childcare are there any other countries which have Breyer support systems than the UK. For example many Eastern European nurseries (Latvia & Lithuania) are free if you go to a government run one or even the very good private ones are about €175 a month for f/t childrcare. But the difference is that they’re don’t have the same draining benefits system that we do so there is more money to focus on childcare. Even the child benefit of £20 a week here, the equivalent would be €25 a month per child.

There is not a system to support the out of work in the same way as here in the UK. Council housing doesn’t really exist unless you are quite severely disabled and so it is not really possible that people who aren’t genuine can milk the system. Immigration is lower because they offer little/to nothing for those coming over. Want to settle in Latvija - speak the language, get a job and a home, it’s not the government’s job to look after you. Interestingly enough to encourage ’boosting’ the population you do get increased child benefits and discounts on childcare and transport and other things if you have 3 or more children. But not many take this up due to the general cost of living.

We currently live in Surrey, mortgage is £2k right now, nursery is £2k for 1 child f/t, combined salaries is £80k - add in utilities and food there’s not much left over. We previously lived in Latvia and had a high standard of living however it is not the case for all. Also most children will not start nursery until 3 and then school at 7. Majority of women will stay at home until the child is 3 and live off one salary so it is still a struggle for many. Just have to suck it up for now and take the hit of nursery fees.

The biggest problem is that the government doesn’t support services for children properly (from the CMS to schools and health) because employees are mainly women, mums have changed their working hours to deal with the poor funding/implementation and the government are elected people who don’t plan long-term. For example they can’t see how funding nursery post maternity means mum working more and paying more tax. Less probability of needing childcare /topups if her relationship fails because she returned full time and less likelihood that she’s a pensioner on little to no income because she paid NI and could save more because she returned to full time work earlier.
The fact that they are bringing in childcare cchanges without fixing the over 3 shortfall in funding is staggering. I hope that it doesn’t end up in lots of closures or providers refusing to have under 3s on funded hours.
Tbh the biggest problem I had with the over 3s hours is that it’s implemented on age rather than school year. The kids who are summer born should have as much preschool hours as the autumn borns (if that’s what the parents want)

That’s the kicker. We need to work out how to get tax from AI because it won’t stop advancing if we don’t

indeed

The Tory government doesn’t care about people who can’t afford to pay for childcare.
They would rather cut taxes (like inheritance tax) which only affect people with plenty of money.
Sadly, it will take a new government & a bunch of time & money to fix nursery places, so it may not improve while you still need it

I’m paying more than £100 a day now.

Wages haven’t increased by that much in ten years.

And capped at £2k a year, which is less than a month of fees now in parts of the country.

It is going to backfire with a decreasing population. I find it mad we have free schooling up to 18 but the first 4 years are extortionate and yet arguably the most important.

The funding for the free hours doesn't cover nursery costs as it is so increasing the free hours won't reduce the burden on families enough. The nurseries will just increase their extra charges and with wage increase etc many will barely see a drop in nursery fees. Nurseries are closing in abundance here since the new free hours is creeping in. The government need to properly fund the hours for it to be effective

I don’t know why it’s the government or the tax payers job to support families. It’s families jobs to support themselves.

Do you believe that families should also look after their elderly and have them come live with them, no nursing homes, no hospital care?