To be disappointed again in male colleagues?

[namechangejustincase39]

I don't have a lot of time to write this and I need to word it carefully because I get the feeling I'm going to sound like such a dick.

Also, I promise this isn't a stealth boast.

I am 39 and been working all of my adult life except for 5 years off for maternity. I have started to notice a trend with my male colleagues and even though I have aged I never fail to be disappointed.

I grew up very attractive, the reason I know this is that strangers would point it out from a very young age. My parents never told me this. So if anything I downplay how I look because I never saw it as something to be proud of or big headed about.

I have always had attention from men, I am not drop dead gorgeous by the way, just attractive in a very girl next door, approachable way. It's something I have gotten used to, but since I have aged and have 2 young kids, I am getting a lot less attention, which I'm absolutely fine with.

My issue is my engagement with male colleagues in the workplace. Over the years I have developed professional friendships with male co-workers, and I treat them the same way I would female colleagues. But my issue is that it is only a matter of time before they let slip that I'm beautiful or they find me attractive etc etc. This usually happens when they have had a drink or two after work. I laugh it off or ignore and move on, but then in work on the Monday they freeze me out because they are embarrassed I guess?

This has happened at every job I have worked at. I just recently went back to work after maternity, I really get on with lots of my colleagues which makes me so happy as I don't live in the UK so making expat friends finally has been such a relief. I don't go out socially very often but this happened with one male colleague at a Christmas drinks social and then again last night. Last night my supervisor who I think is great (and I know his wife etc), made several comments about how I am exceptionally attractive and beautiful. And I am just so so disappointed because now I have distance myself a little from a colleague I respected and enjoyed the company of.

I think my problem is that I am too approachable or something? I just feel really deflated because once again workplace dynamic will change.

So AIBU to be disappointed? Is it me? Has anyone else experienced this?

So I just googled it as I couldn't remember the stats - 90% of women had had unwanted sexual advanced and assaults from men, more than half of women have had this happen actually in the workplace.

So OP I don't think it's a you problem, and possibly not even to do with looks really - I think it's men's behaviour that is bad and needs to change.

He only said you were very attractive not that he wanted to sleep with you, there is no need to freeze him out. Have never noticed that a man was really good looking without actually wanting to sleep them? You are out of the office, alcohol has been drunk and they are just making conversation. If you are that attractive it can hardly be a surprise people mention it from time to time.
A couple of young girls came up to my daughter in Asda once and told her she was beautiful and it wouldn’t be unusual for my young adult dd and her friends to tell a stranger they were stunning looking if they happened to speak to them.

@C1N1C your post is odd. Women don’t need to be asked out at work, so how to handle asking a colleague out “acceptably” doesn’t need to be factored in. The guy gazing lovingly at a colleague isn’t a priority - how is that an “ impossible” situation to be in, to be considered a catch-22? The flip side is significantly worse.

It’s unprofessional to date at work. If you are seriously interested in someone at work, take it offline eg spend time together outside of work and keep any sort of compliments or “feelers” outside of the work environment. Then when you’re in that work environment, remain completely professional. The problem occurs when people are rejected and then start treating colleagues differently eg freezing them out.

It is awkward working with people when that line has been blurred, so trying to make dating at work the priority, opens up the workplace to bias and abuse of power etc.

I'm your age and attractive. More than girl next door. I'd get comments like that in less professional jobs but not really in my current job. I think it's really unprofessional tbh. Have you always worked in a specific industry? Don't worry in about a decade or so the comments will stop.

I get this fully, but am surprised you are still going through this at 39. Not because you wouldn’t still be attractive, but because the weariness of it all meant I definitely changed my behaviour over time to reduce it because I was so fed up. Some of it is also the culture of your workplace.

I also would say I am not in anyway gorgeous or beautiful but am conventionally attractive in a way that I am unlikely to be considered either stunning or unattractive by most people. This has been commented on by men and women throughout my life. I am 34 and it is definitely less now I am older, married with children, but also think a big part of the change is the working environment. I now work in an office in the civil service and there are a lot more women in positions of authority.

Sexism definitely plays a role as my previous work environments were male dominated and I used to not only get incessant comments but also have many more occasions when people assumed I was a junior member of staff or that a male
colleague was my boss.

I totally understand what you mean by the disappointment though. It’s not that you expect all men to behave themselves, and there are some men to obviously avoid and show no friendliness to as you know they will take it as an opening because they think so much of themselves. I have been downright hostile to some men and still been sexually harassed. It’s the ones who you thought were nice, respectful, usually partnered men, who you thought you had a genuine platonic friendship or normally, acquaintance with. I had this in my first year working in a professional capacity with a more senior male who was in a long-term relationship with a live-in partner and knew I was in a long-term relationship too. We didn’t work together closely but had an easy rapport but he was always polite and respectful. Until a night out when he decided to make his move and I was so shocked and upset. He said he ‘couldn’t believe his luck’ when I started work etc etc. and had been thinking about it for months.

At the time it really made me feel like I’d done something to lead him on, and my boyfriend at the time suggested I must have flirted with him. But as I got older I knew I had done nothing at all. The whole thing was in his head.

There have been many such examples over time, though that was the worst. It shattered the naivety.

I would also say I am not traditionally friendly or approachable and am know for being an opinionated and hard-nosed
person at work who gets things done. For me that always seemed be something that actually seems to have made it worse, like you’re a challenge they want to win over.

In the end, I did just entirely limit any communication with male colleagues outside of work and didn’t chat to anyone on a friendship level unless I was absolutely confident they were not the kind of guy to read anything into it. It was exhausting before and this just makes things easier. Ridiculous of course that you should have to, but it seems to be the cultural downside to being reasonably attractive without being so attractive they know they’ve got not chance!! There are benefits I suppose so, take the bad with the good?

I get this fully, but am surprised you are still going through this at 39. Not because you wouldn’t still be attractive, but because the weariness of it all meant I definitely changed my behaviour over time to reduce it because I was so fed up.

I agree. I’m mid-20s and have already changed my behaviour to accommodate this. Being mates with men at work is not a priority but it seems to be important to you OP. My experience has already shown me that it isn’t worth it.

Men can help it.

Even if they think it, they don't have to verbalise it. Especially at work, where they shouldn't verbalise it.

@Maybe2

No, work is not a place to hit on people... but that's really what is happening. Followed by that awkwardness of someone being hit on and the rejection.
Basically, what we're saying is that the idea should never even be considered, because the second 'feelers' or compliments happen, regardless of whether it is inside or outside the workplace, if you've read the signs 'wrong', the damage has been done.

From the guy's point of view (in OP's situation), they don't know until the try... from her point of view, they all appear to be trying, which means all workplace relationships are eventually tarnished.

My original point was, in that rare 1% situation where both parties fancy the other, and want something to happen, how can it? What are the 'accepted' lines/actions?- because we've established, feelers and compliments etc are always out because you'll more than likely have read the signs wrong...

@MasterBeth

Men can help it.

Even if they think it, they don't have to verbalise it. Especially at work, where they shouldn't verbalise it.

Well yeah, but the fact is that they do verablise it don't they. Men try to get into women's pants whether they're nice, respectable, married or the parish priest. Men who know it could ruin their career and whole lives. I mean, if they can help it but still do it where does that leave us? I honestly think their primeval programming negates everything else.

I've met plenty of men who don't do this and don't need to hold themselves back from doing this. It's just what the sleazy ones tell themselves

Diagram?

@C1N1C you’re being purposely obtuse? If 2 colleagues are mutually attracted to each other, then they should spend time outside of work/the workplace dating. You don’t need to immediately jump to making feelings known at work, why can’t you slow down the pace and see if the other person is interested in getting to know you outside of work vs crossing the line at work? Ultimately at work, you do need to give the other person breathing space to decline - why do you insist on there needing to be “accepted lines/actions to take” as if there’s some corporate responsibility here? If it’s such a rare occurrence as you say, why does there need to be a process in place? As opposed to putting something in place that supports the significant amount of people that have faced unwanted attention at work?

unless YOU tell them that they are annoying the Fig out of you, what do you expect to happen?

Too many men verbalise it because too much of our society expects and allows them to. But we can shape our societies to not allow it.

This behaviour at work is sexual harassment, for example. (Of course, so much sexual harassment goes unreported and unpunished.)

It’s not a quick fix, but we can help by educating our sons (and our partners and our bosses!) that no-one needs to hear their views on how attractive or otherwise a colleague or a friend or a woman in the street is. Just keep it to yourself. It’s actually quite a simple rule that even very stupid men can grasp.

I think some women are a certain type of attractive that acts like a magnet for this sort of carry on. Basically, just as you describe, good looking in a girl next door way, so attractive but in their minds 'within reach'. Being naturally friendly and warm, and (I'm guessing) non threatening looking all adds to their thinking that you're a realistic prospect in a way a stunningly gorgeous, or naturally reserved woman may not seem to be. What you can do to avoid it I don't know, other than give it short shrift when it occurs and report anything you feel crosses the line.

Yes I agree. Conventionally stunning women like models are out of reach for your average 40 something colleague. So they don’t “go there” if they think they’d be rejected as she’s likely out of his league as she’s extremely attractive. Whereas the “girl next door” type is more of a medium-attractive, so attractive enough to attract them, but not attractive enough to reject them, so they feel more comfortable shooting their shot.

What do all these men look like?
if a woman is attractive, why do these men tell themselves that she would be interested in a non attractive man, what do they think they offer apart from their Willy, and those are 10 a penny…

It might be worth pointing this out to the men, they might think twice with someone else…instead women are politely declining or changing the subject. As a young woman, I always found unattractive men propositioning me highly offensive….

Whenever anyone male or female compliments me, I just say 'thank you' and move on with my life 🤷‍♂️

What's the issue OP?

Is the issue this? (because it jumped off the page for me)

but since I have aged and have 2 young kids, I am getting a lot less attention, which I'm absolutely fine with.

Are you sure you're fine with it? It's just confusing as to why you think compliments are such a big deal?

The rest of us seem to manage them ok.

Used to get this, always just took it as a compliment and moved on. No big deal.

Maybe stop going on the piss with groups of male colleagues? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Same.

I know it's very 'Mumsnet' to agonise over every tiny thing, but "Cheers mate" and move the conversation along is what most of us do.

We've all been sleazed on by blokes from work who are drunk. Yes, some men are like that and I don't think it makes much difference what you look like.
I have done own fair share of drunkenly propositioning blokes from work before myself, we both just laugh it off. I never actually fancy them in any meaningful way when sober. (I'm not proud of this btw)
The last time a guy did it to me he told me he had a girlfriend but they didn't have sex and she was 20 years older than him...blah blah blah. He then graphically mentioned my genitals. Yep, it's pretty grim but just take it as them being an idiot. Unless its harassment, then go to the boss.

I don't know why some posters are patronising you saying it's not a big deal or too just move the conversation along.
The issue these men freeze her out when she makes it clear she's not interested.
Op, I've no advice really, but I've seen this happening to a a woman I know who is attractive and tall, men will make a beeline for her to tell her how attractive and tall she is, I can imagine how annoying it must be all of the time.

I think it's basically inevitable for men and women to respond to each other sexually in settings where they interact, work or not.

Of course it's possible to keep a lid on it, but so long as you are doing "outside" work things, I think it will sometimes come out. That will depend a bit on your workplace too, I found it most over the top when I was in a setting full of young people, mainly unmarried. Less common where I work now with mainly middle aged women! But even there, I have one male college I would not be at all surprised if he declared my attractiveness over drinks, and I had a female college who was at various times in love with ALL of the men under 50 who worked with us, and it tended to come out in social settings.

My own approach has generally been to treat such admiration as my due and otherwise ignore it. Very rarely it has escalated to some kind of shagging invitation which I just decline. (Well, except my husband I guess who I met at work.)

I just can't get worked up to feel disappointed about it, I just think sexual interest is a significant motivator in the life of most humans. And men in particular are in a position where they are expected to make the first move, so they learn to try and feel out situations.

If it goes beyond that (unless you want it to) of course it may be a problem that you have to take some action around.

Yeah, I have often thought this. It's inevitable where you have mixed workforces, but what is the social convention for managing it? There isn't one really.

Some places try to ban it, but I think that is a) overstepping, and b) always going to be ineffective, so it's better to try and manage it.