Re this math teacher's response

[Diorama1]

I am contemplating emailing the teacher to discuss his response to an issue with my son.
My DS is 14 and is in 2nd year (in Ireland and its the year before your GSCE year). He is very bright and very good at maths. He is doing higher level maths.

He is not a math genius or gifted but he does find it all very easy, he grasps the concepts quickly and has an excellent understanding.
His average in his maths tests this year is 98% and the things he got wrong were only simple errors from rushing eg saying 21 divided by 3 was 3 instead of 7.

We had his parent teacher meetings this week. I dont think what they are like in the UK but here we go around the PE hall and sit for 5 mins with some 10/11 teachers while parents stand behind in a queue waiting their turn. There is little time to discuss and almost no privacy.

I went to his math teacher and he said he was working very well, excellent scores and advised he should keep up studying as things will get harder. I told him that he loves maths but is finding the pace too slow, that he never opens a book at home and wont study for any tests as he knows how to do it. I asked for ways to bring back his interest and to encourage him back into maths. I said I try to get him to study and practice the questions at home but he hates going over what he already knows.

The teacher got very defensive and said the exams were all about rewarding those who study and not those who were good at maths, he said he has to practice the sample questions. He said he has taught many children 10 times better at maths than my son and that if he kept up refusing to revise he would do badly in his exams. He said if he gave my son the same test now as he sat in Sept he was sure my son would do badly in it as he would have forgotten the concepts.

I was a bit taken a back and didnt really respond at the time.

On reflection thought I am very disappointed with his attitude. I was seeking ways to encourage my son back into a love of maths and all he did was advise he repeat work he already knows which I told him is what is killing his enjoyment in the first place. He acted like I was saying my son was a math prodigy and he wanted to put me in my place by saying he has taught much brighter children than him.

DS was doing this level of maths work 3 years ago on his own.

AIBU to expect a better response from an educator and to email him about it?

DS came home yesterday and asked did I say anything to the teacher about him as in class the teacher said that some kids are not putting the work in at home and if that continues they will be moved from the higher level class. DS said the teacher was glaring at him while he said this!

Also if there are any maths teacher on here that have any advice on what DS can do, I would be very grateful.

I teach primary, not secondary, but I am a Maths specialist and have taught secondary Maths in the past; I am also a Maths geek who would do every problem in the textbook, whether it was set for homework or not, just to have more Maths to do and to prepare myself as well as possible for my exams.

I think you need to give the teacher a break- parents' evenings are exhausting, so he probably was more defensive than he would have been otherwise, and he is absolutely right that your son won't do as well in his exams if he doesn't study. He (the teacher) is doing his job by teaching your son and providing him with study materials. Anything further is your responsibility as a parent/your son's responsibility.

Does your son want more challenge in Maths, i.e. does he have a real love of the subject and want to do it at A-level and possibly degree level? If so, Nrich is an excellent website full of problems he can choose to solve for himself. However, from your description, it sounds like he is perfectly happy coasting and getting 98%- if so, I would just leave him to it.

Link to website: https://nrich.maths.org/frontpage

I think you worded it badly. Your son can go online and source loads of challenging Maths material relevant to GCSE and A levels. The skill of self sourcing and self motivation is far more advantageous than the teacher providing more material.

My son got an A in A level Maths in 2023 he motivated himself to find resources outside of the classroom there is so much available online now.

BTW A levels maths is a big jump from GCSE and it’s expected students will be self motivated.

I'm an (ex) teacher although not maths, but a related subject. What your son can do is revise and practice as he's been asked to do. Both you and your son seem to be giving off an attitude that the maths lessons are beneath him, which is never going to be appreciated by the class teacher.

You can work at home on developing his interest/enthusiasm in maths.

Whilst I agree that your son could and perhaps should access some harder maths separately it is the case that to practise,practise practise is what achieves the better grades in exams especially As by your own admission you son makes errors he could easily avoid because either he rushes or simply thinks this is easy so doesn't check his work properly. No disrespect but even for non mathematicians who are eg. top set they can easily achieve top grades by practice. The teacher simply is trying to instil a good working method so that when your son does come up against the more difficult aspects he is in the right frame of mind to approach this.

I understand you want to escalate and continue this, but I would not.

he is right that your son should get into the habit of revising, as it will get harder, and as much as you maybe right, he would continue to ace as he finds it too easy, you may find you are not.

there also could have been something off about your delivery, sometimes what we say is not always what’s heard.

id also take all the emotion out of it, the teacher glaring etc, look at the words used, and the point being made.

in the meantime work with your son, there ar eplenty of resources if he wishes to advance himself past the current curriculum.

He clearly didnt handle it very well. However, as a teacher myself, I regularly hear parents saying how 'amazing' they are at something when I know the reality. He probably does know children significantly better. You only know your son. You have literally nothing to compare to.

The teacher gave you excellent feedback - you then had a go at him for the classes being too slow, not engaging your child significantly enough and telling him that's why your child won't do any work at home.

If your child genuinely needs pushing (in your opinion) , get him a tutor. Let him explore further maths with the tutor. In all honestly, if you ask a tutor they will give you an honest view of where your child is at, so it might be worth a few sessions just for that. The vast majority of bright children are bored in early secondary years, especially in maths, as it's the same work they covered in Year 6.

Maybe he's frustrated that your child who is able is messing about, not paying attention and losing easy marks in tests because he thinks he'd too good to be doing them? And now he's met his Mum he realises where his attitude is from?

Nothing to be gained from emailing the teacher other than confirming what he already suspects. Not saying this is right but given he's already glared at your son, sending another email is not going to help in the slightest. Go about this a different way. Get your son to join the maths club, or get one started if there isn't one.

This just sounds like a miscommunication. It'll blow over.

His attitude sounds fine tbh. It IS a bit pointless to slog away at something you're consistently achieving 98% in. His time would be far better spent on weaker subjects. As long as he's doing his homework he's fine.

It not that he or I feel it is beneath him it is that he finds it very boring to repeat the same problem questions. Its like asking someone who knows their times tables to keep doing them ad nauseum.

I am asking the teacher because he is the professional and knows the curriculum and how maths concepts lead to each other. We can both absolutely go on line and find extra work but neither of us know how to find the type of work that would be of benefit to what he is doing eg does he need to know other concepts before he starts a particular area.

Maths in not like other subjects and I dont know how to guide him. Its not like an interest in history for example.
What id he is doing some type of algebra but actually he needs to understand some other concept first. I was asking for professional direction but all he did was advise to do more of the same.

The only thing I know how to do is keep advancing with his textbooks but I dont want to do that as that means he gets further ahead of the class work and leads to more boredom.

I was also a child who loved maths and found it easy.
I would do questions out of the text book "for fun". So I find it odd that your child loves maths but doesn't want to do questions. I actually wonder if this suggests that he might be scared of finding something he can't do and losing his "great at maths" label? Just because he got 98% in his maths test doesn't mean he can do that consistently if it's material he hasn't looked at for a while.

It's also not that difficult for a bright child to google "maths puzzles" or similar and do them. In fact a child that loves maths would probably have to be dragged away from them. I suspect your DC might be quite happy doing what he's doing.

I also agree with the teacher - even someone who is naturally gifted at maths needs to practice. You can't pass GCSE on innate ability alone.

Hes doing well, he's getting 98%. Why do you need to change anything?

And no I wouldn't take this further, it sounds like the teacher was a bit put out by your comments, and acted defensively. I'd just let it go.

I think the teacher suspects that your son picks things up quickly and so does well on the subject they're covering in class, but that because he doesn't spend much time on it (and why would he when it's easy) the skills won't be going into his long term memory.

To do well in his Junior Cert next year he will need to keep revisiting topics. To encourage a love of maths he could look at some Leaving Cert level stuff. Also I did a maths degree in Ireland many moons ago, some of my friends had been at the Centre for Talented Youth Ireland (CTYI), working beyond the level of the state exams. No idea if it still exists as that was easily 20 years ago! But there might be something.

I wouldn't overthink it tbh, even second year to third year was a big jump back in the day. And then if he does Higher Level in the Leaving then he's likely to need to work hard at it.

I totally know he needs to revise thats what prompted the conversation with the teacher. But his solution was to keep doing the same stuff, I was asking is there other ways the same problems can be presented so he thinks he is doing other work and he said no. He just said to do the questions in the book. He did all the questions in the book 3 years ago and I was just asking where to go from here.

Thanks @ColleenDonaghy he was in the CTYI for a few years dong science subjects, it is still going.

The teachers keeps saying oh wait until 5th year!! but the problem is he is losing all interest because it so easy now. I just wanted extension work suggestions as I dont know how to advise him but even from the replies here, people get so hot under the collar if you dare suggest your child is bright :)

If he just wants more questions on the same topics, he could look at past exam papers or you could look for other textbooks (second hand as they'll cost you a fortune!).

If he was in CTYI then he is bright, the teacher shouldn't have been so defensive. But we can all feel like we're being criticised at times

I think the teachers is simply trying to explain that revising/practice is a good habit to get into, in all subjects.

It does sound like your DS believes himself to be too advanced for the class, so maybe if he completes practice exams it will teach him the importance of interpreting the question correctly, taking time to answer and checking your answers, to avoid making avoidable mistakes as he is currently doing.

If he enjoys maths and is quite good at it, maybe look at getting him a tutor.

Thanks my DD did her Junior Cert last year and he has done a good few of the past exam papers and my nephew did JC in a different school so with a different text book so he has loads of maths textbooks. I am keeping him to the topics he is currently doing as I am not sure going ahead is good.

I don't really see the issue to be honest. The reality is that he needs to study for his exams, and if he won't do this then it's correct that he won't do well. Yes it would be great to kindle a joy of maths, but unfortunately the teacher's main job is to get him to do as well as he can in the exam (since this will impact his life chances) no one finds studying for GCSEs a bundle of fun. It's a necessary evil at this point in your son's career and I personally agree that if he wants to do well the main thing will be to buckle down.

I don't really understand what you want here.

Your child is doing well in school but is not doing 'extra' at home? Why would you think that has anything to do with the teacher?

If you want him to be doing additional, enriching, stretching, or whatever you want to call it, outside of school, then you or your son should source it. If your son CBA to do that then personally I wouldn't pressure him. Children will naturally seek out more information if they want to; trying to force them because you see their potential never works well.

He did really well in the tests to get in, well above what was needed and he did chemistry, microbiology, forensics and something else, he found it very interesting but also too slow for him and stopped after 2 years.

@tiggergoesbounce He does rush through everything and makes simple mistakes because he finds it easy but he isn't the type of child to believe he is better than everyone he is very matter of fact that he knows it, understands it and struggles to see the benefit in going over it and over it again. I am tying to teach him that but it isnt easy.

Go to a website like Corbett maths. His worksheets start with basic practice questions and then ask you to apply the techniques to solve problems.

The teacher is right though, he needs to practice so that it sticks in his memory. If he isn't interested in practising then he won't get such a good grade.

Until he's regularly not making silly errors due to speed and lack of care, he needs to continue to practice/revise.

If he wants a challenge then there is something called the Maths Olympiad - there's a website for it. It's an organised maths competition, for which there are past questions available for him to try. He can do that independently of any lesson content. Does the school not have a maths club or a maths Olympiad team already?

Maths teacher.

There are a lot of resources that can challenge him,

In the U.K. we have the UKMT who run maths challenges. These have harder questions on topics that are covered in school.

They have the primary maths challenge, for kids up to age 11.

The one that is probably most suitable for your son is the junior maths challenge for students up to the age of 13.

Past papers and solutions here:

ukmt.org.uk/current-past-papers/jsf/jet-engine:free-past-papers/tax/challenge-type:67/

It is aligned to the U.K. curriculum but most maths curricula are not significantly different at that age.

If he finds those easy they also run the intermediate maths challenge (age 15 and under) and senior maths challenge (18 and under).

In any classroom the teacher has to balance the needs of all the students. His job is primarily to prepare them for their exams. His feedback was clear.

If you want extension material for your son/individual provision then it really is a significant amount of work.

In the U.K. some schools would provide this but it would mostly be a lunchtime maths club or invite only problem solving session, not additional material/1:1 attention in the main class.

Thats what revision is - going over the same stuff repeatedly. Learning new concepts isnt revision.
My DD~ excelled at Maths all the way through school - didnt need to revise for her GCSEs where she got almost 100% in all her maths exams. She soon became unstuck with A levels and had to change her approach to learning - because it was so much harder that she DID have to over learn.