Re this math teacher's response

[Diorama1]

I am contemplating emailing the teacher to discuss his response to an issue with my son.
My DS is 14 and is in 2nd year (in Ireland and its the year before your GSCE year). He is very bright and very good at maths. He is doing higher level maths.

He is not a math genius or gifted but he does find it all very easy, he grasps the concepts quickly and has an excellent understanding.
His average in his maths tests this year is 98% and the things he got wrong were only simple errors from rushing eg saying 21 divided by 3 was 3 instead of 7.

We had his parent teacher meetings this week. I dont think what they are like in the UK but here we go around the PE hall and sit for 5 mins with some 10/11 teachers while parents stand behind in a queue waiting their turn. There is little time to discuss and almost no privacy.

I went to his math teacher and he said he was working very well, excellent scores and advised he should keep up studying as things will get harder. I told him that he loves maths but is finding the pace too slow, that he never opens a book at home and wont study for any tests as he knows how to do it. I asked for ways to bring back his interest and to encourage him back into maths. I said I try to get him to study and practice the questions at home but he hates going over what he already knows.

The teacher got very defensive and said the exams were all about rewarding those who study and not those who were good at maths, he said he has to practice the sample questions. He said he has taught many children 10 times better at maths than my son and that if he kept up refusing to revise he would do badly in his exams. He said if he gave my son the same test now as he sat in Sept he was sure my son would do badly in it as he would have forgotten the concepts.

I was a bit taken a back and didnt really respond at the time.

On reflection thought I am very disappointed with his attitude. I was seeking ways to encourage my son back into a love of maths and all he did was advise he repeat work he already knows which I told him is what is killing his enjoyment in the first place. He acted like I was saying my son was a math prodigy and he wanted to put me in my place by saying he has taught much brighter children than him.

DS was doing this level of maths work 3 years ago on his own.

AIBU to expect a better response from an educator and to email him about it?

DS came home yesterday and asked did I say anything to the teacher about him as in class the teacher said that some kids are not putting the work in at home and if that continues they will be moved from the higher level class. DS said the teacher was glaring at him while he said this!

Also if there are any maths teacher on here that have any advice on what DS can do, I would be very grateful.

This is on your son to push himself. I say that as someone who flew through maths at school and ended up doing a degree in it.

I want him to study at home so that he will continue to do well. He is coasting at the moment and not developing any work ethic as it comes too easy for him.

Teacher said he needs to revise and practice and I agree. I said he wont keep doing the same type of questions as in class as no challenge and he finds that boring.
I asked if there was some other resources that he could use that would present the same concepts but in different way so that he would be doing the correct revision but it would feel different for him. Teacher said no just keep doing the questions from the book. I dont see how that is helpful.

I love maths - maths undergrad and now working in computer science. See if he wants to get into programming, there are many online options to learn. He might be motivated to learn about AI, since it’s such a hot topic right now. I do / did a lot of puzzles and strategy games too. It’ll be easier to find the right things if you’re interested too, I suppose. Quite hard to give general recommendations and it’s really difficult to find motivation to study anything if there aren’t other people around who share your interest. What does he say he’s looking for?

Teachers are stretched but I think you’re right to be disappointed by this response. Like your son I’m no genius but I found school and most of uni very easy. I wish I’d had more support to raise my aspirations beyond getting through the courses. Does he have a longer term academic or career goal in mind that might give some direction and motivation?

Otoh, if he’s happy just getting through then leave him be, no need to push him too much.

@Diorama1 what about his other subjects? He's not just doing maths, he's doing a raft of subjects. Why does he need to foster a 'work ethic' rather than using his down time to relax? It sounds like he's doing school and his homework just not revision because he doesn't actually need to do it.

I went to his math teacher and he said he was working very well, excellent scores and advised he should keep up studying as things will get harder

.I told him that he loves maths but is finding the pace too slow, that he never opens a book at home and wont study for any tests as he knows how to do it

I asked for ways to bring back his interest and to encourage him back into maths. I said I try to get him to study and practice the questions at home but he hates going over what he already knows.

The teacher got very defensive and said the exams were all about rewarding those who study and not those who were good at maths, he said he has to practice the sample questions

ok this is all a bit confused, for example you said you asked him for ways to encourage your son back in, he respond with the exams are there for rewarding those who study. This is an Illogical flow of conversation.

somethung has been clearly said about him finding exams easy .

in addition the teacher pointed out your son needs keep up studying as it’s about to get harder. You responded with effectively telling him he doesn’t study at all and it’s because it’s too easy.

the teacher then tells you he needs to practice on the sample questions.

its clear the teacher is concerned that although he is currently achieving excellent scores, unless he studies and practices, he is going to struggle as it progresses, and maths does progress. Clearly he sees more in class than just test scores.

im not sure what to advise though, if your son refuses to do his practice sample questions as he finds it boring, and you support that, then it’s going to go one of two ways. Either he will struggle as it progresses and the teacher is right, or he will ace it as he is a natural prodigy who doesn’t need to practice on sample questions to ensure he knows it fully.

@Uol2022 thank you. On the one hand he is happy to coast but on the other he has great aspirations for a career. He is immature and thinks he will coast through the leaving cert and I know he wont without study.
He used to love maths and always wanted to learn more but is gone lazy now and the way the school system is, it just focuses on the exams. I think its no wonder children hate maths!
I can guide him on other areas if he wants but not in maths.

He wants to either be an engineer or doctor.

Honestly If you have the money I'd find someone who gives grinds and see can they stretch him a bit. We had excellent maths teachers in my irish secondary school who would push the more well able students. Sadly your son doesn't have one of those teachers.

Is he coasting in all subjects? Considering that he’s working towards exams, isn’t it good that his maths ability frees time for his weaker subjects ? (I’m assuming that the exams that he is doing is in lots of subjects like GCSEs)

Maybe he will find motivation when school starts teaching material that he’s unfamiliar with. A keen maths student would then go home and do lots of questions on it to solidify their knowledge.

Spending more time on weaker subjects could ignite his confidence and broaden his interest in other subjects which is far from a bad thing.

Oh yeah, ukmt maths challenge was brilliant, loved doing those as a kid. Personally I wouldn’t worry about preventing him from going ahead in the textbook. Better to be challenged and interested. From experience, it is absolutely possible to get top grades in maths gcse / Alevel with minimal to no revision. If he messes up a mock exam that’ll give him the push to know how much work he needs to do for the real thing. So I’d let him not revise if he doesn’t want to as long as the consequences are recoverable.

I dont think his work ethic and maturity comes from his maths class!

Hi

I have a similar son. I've had similar conversations in Irish school, similar responses. I have come to the conclusion now that I need to work with my son on ways he can get better at learning to concentrate and complete tasks, and that that is really the core issue. Not the subject.

I can also understand some comments here, it doesn't matter the subject or the ability of they can't complete a task fully and on time.
Maybe a tad harsh though ladies.. :)

I also understand your frustration of just wanting a helpful, targeted suggestion/advice from a professional and not getting anything back except their jaded response of dealing with 'another parent who thinks x'. It is extremely hard when you are just trying to find a way to do your best for your son.

Good luck, I've been going the study skills route instead and it's really helping.

He doesnt work in any subject and doesnt feel the need to because he does well in the exams. He doesnt study, rushes his homework. I am working with him to settle down and start some study to get good habits. I can help with other subjects in terms of alternative ways to study eg watch youtube video on geothermal energy to stir an interest but in maths I struggle to know how to assist outside of the book

You sound way too invested - if he is getting 90% + in tests and the teacher is not concerned, why the pressure? 14 year olds are never going to get excited by revision.

He wants to either be an engineer or doctor.

Then maybe don’t worry about pushing the maths directly, let him lean into those interests. Both sound entirely achievable for him without needing to push too much right now.

From a teacher perspective, at times I sympathize with a few kids who are bright/quick to pick up new concepts and ready to move on. The reality is that I have 2 students who understand, 20 students who have almost grasped the concept but need consolidation and 6 students that are really struggling. Even with the best will in the world, I cannot truly teach in a way that suits every individual student at every moment.
I also cannot always extend students in a meaningful way as in order to extend someone or teach them a harder concept, it requires 1:1 or 1:2 and time that I don’t have when I’m trying to help the rest of the class understand the content being assessed.

I’m sure I will get posters reply about how I need to do this or that, or how it’s easy to differentiate or spend time individually with each student. However, I am not just teaching. I’m managing the diabetic student whose alarm is beeping indicating low levels. I’m dealing with the student with such special needs that they are not toilet trained, intellectually impaired to the point they can’t read, count to ten or write their own name at 13, I’m dealing with the 2 autistic students, 1 dyslexic, 2 ADHD and then add in about 4 with behavioural issues and/or mental health issues. I’m dealing with a crying student in the middle of class who had sent naked images to her boyfriend only for it to be passed on and seen by the year level. I’m dealing with a student who is angry cause there was a family violence incident over the weekend and now there’s a restraining order protecting him from his father.

What I’m trying to say is: your child is doing well, understands the concepts and could improve by taking more time/care with his work. I don’t really think there was anything wrong with what the teacher said or what more he could offer your son in the limited class time he has when his focus is shared between all students and his goal is for all students to understand the concept that will be tested.

I applaud you for caring and for trying to extend your child. However, the reality of classroom teaching these days is that extension beyond class material usually happens outside of class, such as at maths club, tutorials, etc.

Ok that changes things, it means it’s not about maths it’s about his work ethic,

in my anecdotal experience this happens with boys way more than girls. They get more interested in other things. And the study slides. Deep down do you believe if he wasn’t aceing everything it would be any different? It often isn’t, there just is another reason not to do it, I can’t understand it, the teacher doesn’t help, I’m doing my best, it’s too hard.

there is a potential the maths teacher knows your son is one of the kids not putting the effort in across the board, teachers do share information on students, and was simply trying to tell you this isn’t about the complexity of the maths, but the attitude of your son.

I don’t think she is too invested, I think if your child isn’t doing the work it’s natural to be concerned. Where I think she’s maybe going wrong is she putting that down to him being really intelligent and capable. And failing to think is it because he is now interested in other things and simply not motivated,

He doesnt work in any subject and doesnt feel the need to because he does well in the exams. He doesnt study, rushes his homework

If he’s doing well, does it matter that he does things quickly? He’ll soon slow down as the curriculum becomes difficult for him because he’ll need to work differently for the same results. I found school learning boring, I grasp things quickly and didn’t need to go over the same concepts endlessly. In university I developed different study habits, because I needed to, going through the motions in school wouldn’t have helped any.

Also a maths teacher here.

You could sign him up on Dr Frost Maths and get him to do exam questions or UKMT Maths Challenge questions related to the topics he has covered.

Someone upthread has already provided a link to the UKMT website, so you should find plenty there to stretch him.

NRICH also has a section for parents of able pupils and challenging Maths problems, here.
https://nrich.maths.org/parents/secondary

As he got 98% because of losing marks on silly mistakes, then it's not a complete waste of time getting him to study and improve his exam technique.

Marks are lost and can make the difference between grades when students either don't read the question properly, or are so confident with their answers that they don't bother checking them.

As for the maths teacher in your op, I guess they just were expecting you to be pleased that he was doing well, rather than being told that he's bored, so they possibly interpreted that as criticism of their teaching.
Either way, I think they overreacted but I think you also came across as "that parent".

If you would like a tailored approach to learning for your child OP, then you can pay for a private maths tutor for him or find the material yourself. As a previous poster has already pointed out teachers are under massive pressure as it is, they have to teach in a way that works for the majority of the class. That means going through the curriculum, and the “extras” is going through the textbook & past papers. If you want something above and beyond that, you can find a personal private tutor to provide it.

I was also going to suggest the UK Maths Challenges. My DC's school supported him to do them. The challenges involve problem-solving rather than handle-turning so someone who is bored with handle-turning may well find them more interesting. They take a very different direction from the school maths curriculum but they teach mental skills that university maths courses require.

They also involve hard work but it's the kind of hard work that means banging your head against an interesting problem and trying many different approaches that may fail without knowing which approach is going to lead to the answer.

I can see what all the teachers on here are complaining about if you are representative of the parents they deal with on a daily basis.

Your son makes ‘silly mistakes’ because he rushes. Therefore, he needs to learn to pay more attention to detail and examine his work more thoroughly. But his mum insists he’s a genius who cannot repeat the same type of problems. The same ones he is getting wrong.

Your son makes ‘silly mistakes’ because he rushes. Therefore, he needs to learn to pay more attention to detail and examine his work more thoroughly. But his mum insists he’s a genius who cannot repeat the same type of problems. The same ones he is getting wrong.

He got 98%, I’m a bit confused about what more she wants tbh. He’s doing brilliantly well by any standard.

Realistically, teachers are seldom interested in pupils who are performing at or above their expected level. They are going to spend their time and energy on the ones who are below expected but with the potential to reach expected or above. It's the classic complaint of the "one size fits all" education system that those who are performing become invisible. They don't have the time nor effort to find "harder" work. Even if they did, it just defers the issue as the pupil will then have done the work planned for the following term or year, so it will be never ending. They're hardly likely to start giving your son A level work by the time his class are preparing for GCSEs!

It's a shame if the school doesn't have a Maths "club" as that's the usual outlet for "gifted" pupils to spread their wings alongside others of similar ability, usually doing things that aren't taught in schools at all - i.e. abstract concepts, alternative ways of solving problems, etc. Some schools may also put pupils into national competitions such as the Maths Olympiad which again has the kind of question to solve that will never be found within normal school Maths lessons!

The bigger problem I see with the OP's son is that complacency can creep in, that they stop spending time revising and doing practice questions and become blase and don't put effort into new topics, so can quickly fall behind and miss out on fundamental new skills that can really hamper their progress from which some never recover. To an extent, that's me! I was always excellent at Maths, always asking for harder work, etc. throughout primary school and the first 2/3 years of secondary, but the GCSE years hit me like a brick wall and I ended up failing it, having to do a couple of resits, firstly to claw my way to a C and then a second time to get a B, which led to me doing A level, which I still struggled with and only got a D (which meant something in those days, 80s). In my professional exams for accountancy, we did a few higher maths style papers, one being quantitative analysis, which I absolutely nailed with a score of over 90% on all of them, so I did have the maths skills after all, but just suffered a really bad few years at first when we got onto the harder stuff without me realising it, and fell behind which you just can't do with Maths as it's all cumulative.

We had a similar experience at a parent's evening with our son, but for chemistry. He'd got something like 92% in the year end exam and we thought it was brilliant. The teacher said "it was OK" and we were stunned. He went on to explain he knew that DS was "coasting" and could do a lot better, wasn't really putting enough effort it, just going through the motions, etc. We took it badly as a kind of insult and couldn't believe he said that after such a spectacular exam result.

But as time passed, different teachers, etc., we started to realise the teacher had been right. Son's marks etc started to dip, not by much, but it was clear either he was losing interest or wasn't putting the effort in when things were getting harder. Son was compliant, though, took our advice, realised he'd started to lose the plot and started to make more effort again, and brought it round.

A couple of years later, he got the same Chemistry teacher again, and we had a much more amiable parent's evening where he reminded us of what he'd said and how happy he was that DS was really making the effort, contributing more to class, etc., and well on target, even though his year end mark was "only" in the late 70's % wise. On paper, it looked like he'd got worse, but in reality, his attitude, work ethic, etc had got better, and the work was now many times harder. He ended up with a grade 9 at GCSE! Teacher was right after all!!