Re this math teacher's response

[Diorama1]

I am contemplating emailing the teacher to discuss his response to an issue with my son.
My DS is 14 and is in 2nd year (in Ireland and its the year before your GSCE year). He is very bright and very good at maths. He is doing higher level maths.

He is not a math genius or gifted but he does find it all very easy, he grasps the concepts quickly and has an excellent understanding.
His average in his maths tests this year is 98% and the things he got wrong were only simple errors from rushing eg saying 21 divided by 3 was 3 instead of 7.

We had his parent teacher meetings this week. I dont think what they are like in the UK but here we go around the PE hall and sit for 5 mins with some 10/11 teachers while parents stand behind in a queue waiting their turn. There is little time to discuss and almost no privacy.

I went to his math teacher and he said he was working very well, excellent scores and advised he should keep up studying as things will get harder. I told him that he loves maths but is finding the pace too slow, that he never opens a book at home and wont study for any tests as he knows how to do it. I asked for ways to bring back his interest and to encourage him back into maths. I said I try to get him to study and practice the questions at home but he hates going over what he already knows.

The teacher got very defensive and said the exams were all about rewarding those who study and not those who were good at maths, he said he has to practice the sample questions. He said he has taught many children 10 times better at maths than my son and that if he kept up refusing to revise he would do badly in his exams. He said if he gave my son the same test now as he sat in Sept he was sure my son would do badly in it as he would have forgotten the concepts.

I was a bit taken a back and didnt really respond at the time.

On reflection thought I am very disappointed with his attitude. I was seeking ways to encourage my son back into a love of maths and all he did was advise he repeat work he already knows which I told him is what is killing his enjoyment in the first place. He acted like I was saying my son was a math prodigy and he wanted to put me in my place by saying he has taught much brighter children than him.

DS was doing this level of maths work 3 years ago on his own.

AIBU to expect a better response from an educator and to email him about it?

DS came home yesterday and asked did I say anything to the teacher about him as in class the teacher said that some kids are not putting the work in at home and if that continues they will be moved from the higher level class. DS said the teacher was glaring at him while he said this!

Also if there are any maths teacher on here that have any advice on what DS can do, I would be very grateful.

Not flaming but that's because he's got the time to do that. Half the class sizes , motivated students, better resources in terms of IT and classrooms and probably no one sitting in detention with him break and lunchtime for pissing about in lessons! Also, probably doesn't see 180 students a week like a comprehensive teacher might do either. It's an unfair comparison.

Although I went to a top public school and I can say some of the teachers I had there were absolutely dire!

I was also going to suggest https://ukmt.org.uk/

It's been great at giving my son some maths fun on top of his school work. Your sons teacher is there to get him the best grade possible, but is there for the whole class not just your son.

Turn your frustration to your lazy child and away from the teacher. If he is rushing and making basic mistakes, he’s not as good as either you or he thinks he is.

I’m with you OP. I think the teacher’s attitude was/is a bit off. When a child is coasting, and beginning to lose interest in a subject they have shown talent in, teachers should try to offer some form of stretch or at least support it by suggesting resources that you could utilise at home. They should engage with engaged parents too.

Few things at school are more demotivating than being made to repeat things that are way too easy. It can kill love of learning and that has long term impacts. I bet it’s why your son makes silly mistakes too - if you don’t need to think very hard because you are not challenged, you can stop concentrating as much. Ironically, doing more challenging work may fix that issue by forcing concentration which will in turn become a habit even for easy work.

I am speaking from experience here. I had this very issue at school and it did real damage. Luckily I was able to turn it around when I started studying post graduate law. But that’s a long time to be in bad habits!

@Diorama1

I feel your communication style is poor.
If you wanted extension work then why not just ask for that?
You went at the teacher as though he/
she was at fault. What response did you expect.
Also you keep mentioning how bright your son is - you have no idea now other people in the class are doing. And if you are so convinced of his maths talent then do what you need to do to extend him.

If you can afford it, the suggestion of hiring a tutor is a good one. They will be able to assess his skill level and give him work to match. It does make school even more boring though - again speaking from experience!

He does rush through everything and makes simple mistakes because he finds it easy but he isn't the type of child to believe he is better than everyone he is very matter of fact that he knows it, understands it and struggles to see the benefit in going over it and over it again. I am tying to teach him that but it isnt easy.

I did well at school OP. I went on to do well at university, I have a PhD and postdoctoral publications. Although it was in history, which you seem to think would be easy for you to teach? It isn't easy to teach it well, that's for sure.

I think I would impress upon your son that being good at a subject isn't enough, on its own, to get anyone through exams. You also need to be good at exams and assessments, and those are separate skills from the subject itself. So unless he slows down and works carefully, his intelligence will not be reflected in his marks.

So maybe concentrate on him learning exam and assessment skills as a subject in their own right, and one where he can currently improve. Whenever I got into the high 90s in science and maths tests, I'd ask myself why it wasn't 100 per cent. Steer away from the focus on maths, which he can currently manage a little too easily, and ask him why he's dropping easy marks. Make that the challenge. Find rewards that motivate him for improving his exam skills, rather than his maths skills.

Some of the harder GCSE questions, those at the end of the paper aimed at grade 8/9 require something more than understanding the rules. As a marker,I know that very few students get full/any marks at this level. They require a higher level of problem solving, often in multiple steps. The more your son practices these questions, the better.

Most children will be able to learn a method and repeat it shortly after, but it is repetition that will embed it into his brain. The teacher is right that performing well in a test covering the concepts learned in the previous half term won't translate to a good GCSE result, and practising is sometimes boring. If study was super fun and never boring, everyone would get straight 9s.

I can see where the maths teacher is coming from as there's always a handful of parents of fairly average children insisting that their child is too clever for the work being set and needs more challenge, when what we're seeing in class is a lack of motivation rather than an excess of talent. Rushing on to the next concept without consolidating the previous one will not benefit your son in the long run.

May I offer an alternative no one has suggested yet? I am math and science tutor from Singapore. Get him to do papers that kids his age are doing in countries like Singapore? Similar topics but much harder questions. He is 14-15, that would be a secondary 3 maths E (elementary), a year before our equivalent of the GCSE.

The A maths paper is significantly different and only offered to half the cohort.
There are 2 sorts of papers, SA1 which test the first semester's work and SA2 which test the entire year's syllabus.
Here is a free (registration required though) resource for exam papers from Singapore schools:
https://freetestpaper.com/secondary-3-e-maths-2021/

That's really not a nice way to address op and her child. Her child may be 'lazy' because he is bored and op is asking the teacher (expert) for some direction.

I'm not going to get involved in the debate about the discussion with the teacher, I think you need to let it go for the sake of your son's relationship with his teacher.

You've got 2 options to help your son: let him explore the textbook or other online resources by himself, or get him a tutor.
The first option means it's up to him to put the effort, and he might decide not to.
Don't worry about him getting bored because he explores the topics ahead of the class, it's not actually the case yet. And if he is missing some background knowledge to address a topic, he should be able to find what he needs himself, it's part of the process really.

If he's not putting that extra work himself, but YOU want to get him to practice his maths skills, then go the tutor route. There is nothing wrong about that IMO, it's your decision as a parent to push your child in a area for their long-term benefits.

Op I udnerstand your point. And perhaps the teacher was not helpful/ having a bad day/ spoke rudely

BUT

I always think in interactions with schools and teachers you have to be really realistic - this isn't a disney movie, the teacher does not have unlimited time to move beyond the cirriculum and 'inspire' the bright kids - nice if it happens but plenty of teachers are under huge time pressure just getting kids through exams. He has an aim - and that is your son passes / gets a good grade - your teacher here also has another aim - he has to help more mediocre students actually pass the exam - so he is pulled in different directions.

it matters more to the school that the D/C grade kids pass with a C - my friend is a maths teacher and was under huge pressure to focus on the D/C band pupiils - because if pupils don't get a C it looks bad for the school

So - the answer here is to take your sons work into your/ his hands - if your son is not motivated enough at this age to do extra learning as well as revise - then he isn't quite as high achiveing as you think surely?

I think your first step has to be to look at using a tutor - even if just to get him started on finding resources to stretch himself.

Thank you for those that posted the very helpful resources and links that I will definitely look at.

I do impress upon him the importance of exam techniques and looking over answers. His handwriting is atrocious and I have told him this will affect his results also. There is definitely an immaturity which will improve with time but I am trying to start building good habits now. I know I focused on maths but it isnt just it, its a bigger issue of revision.

If you look at books about big thinkers (a good example is the excellent biography of famous physicist Richard Feynman) - they will have soared ahead easily in maths - but they are also always pushing themselves, taking on extra work, finding books to challenge themselves.

yes they do often get noticed by the teacher as exceptional - I am sure if your son does come top of the class etc then he can find a more inspiring teacher next year?

Its worth having a good relationship with the teacher - I woudl email and say - hey I think perhaps my words came across wrong - I am aware my son needs to keep revising - but i'd love to know how to challenge him for next steps as well if you could spare 15 mins at some time.

in fact a nice thing for your son might be to read some biographies/ autobiogrpahies of famous scientists/ mathmeticians - I love reading about the paths people take who achieve great things.....it could inspire him. Often these kids were quirky and very self motivated.

I loved maths and was good at it. I found it easy enough until I didn't- certain topics at A Level were difficult to grasp.

I liked having problems to solve - these enable you to apply the maths you know. OP your son may find these more fun and I'm sure they are easy to source.

As a teacher though, I'd find your attitude annoying. Of course you can get near full marks on a test of work you HAVE DONE RECENTLY. But in an exam you will be tested on every topic and that's why revision is important. In the case of a parent who thinks their child is very good at something and tells the teacher that, there are two frequent realities - one that the child is not as good as they believe or only in specific areas, and the other is the child becomes arrogant, careless and dismissive of the teaching they receive.

Your DS might enjoy this site, run by Simon Singh. There are lots of different sessions (web-based) they can join in on and weekly maths challenges that introduce them to the much wider world of maths that they may not be encountering at school.
https://parallel.org.uk/

Leave it be. You're not going to get anywhere with the school. They're all about learning for the exam rather than learning for the love of the subject.

He might be interested in doing CTYI over the summer.

https://www.dcu.ie/ctyi/centre-talented-youth-ireland-secondary-school-programme-overview

@Hungryhippopotamus

Have you considered private tuition?

The teacher has told your son to go over what he has learned and keep revising. As a teacher, that is good advice. It is very easy to forget and make daft mistakes later, if you aren’t constantly going over the same content…regardless of how boring that might be.

The teacher is not under any further obligation to provide extended homework. I am sure he has more than enough to do, without offering free extra tuition. You say you just want advice, but even putting together good quality resources and links, especially for an ‘involved’ parent is time consuming on top of your teaching day.

But, if you are concerned about your son’s waning enthusiasm and lack of motivation, or need for something new, a private tutor would be able to meet his needs far more individually (because he is being paid for his time to do this). Look to pay in the region of about £30 an hour for secondary maths tutor.

Best of luck to your son.

I am not a maths teachers but I was top in maths in my year right through school and it is my degree subject. I think you are coming across as if you think your son is a maths prodigy, with your comments about him doing things from three years ago. How can this possibly be true, there is a curriculum to follow that progresses through mathematics.

To be honest, it sounds like your son doesn’t enjoy maths very much. I always loved doing any maths. In terms of revision, I think your son will manage this for GCSEs when the time comes. I can honestly say I did not do even five minutes revision for my O level, I didn’t need to and I knew I would get an A. It is not the same for A level though and encouraging your son to work and practice is not a bad idea.

I really don’t even know what you think you have to complain about, I think you are just stung that the teacher didn’t fawn over your child genius.

He's not revising his subjects, but still hitting the grades? You are worried that his interest and enthusiasm is declining?

The school/teacher are doing what they are supposed to do. Unless you can afford to go private, there (generally speaking) isn't the possibility of individualised 'mentoring'. Teaching is pressured, time-poor, and spread thin to the targets practicable.

What is within your control: talk to your child. Discuss their interests and ambitions. Enable projects and resources outside of school. Encourage their sense of being in the driving seat of what they can achieve. Encourage their work discipline and ambitions.

My friends’ daughter had the same, got an a in junior cert and then an a in leaving cert despite the fact that her teacher was horrible to her in 6th year because my friend said to her she didn’t really find maths challenging. I know this is awful but for peace I’d tell your son to hand up extra work or something to show he’s going along with the teacher, he’ll probably have him again next year and doesn’t need to be singled out

@Diorama1 I agree with a pp's suggestion re private tuition, even if just for a short time to get him going again. I loved science and maths when younger and was very capable. However a lack of challenge switched off my enjoyment of those subjects. An excellent tutor I had just taught me about the subject, linked to the exams but also things that help you develop a genuine understanding of the subject so you can put all the concepts together as you would at degree level rather than just learn by rote. I loved learning it all again after that.

I was a lot like your DS when I was in high school OP, barely revised and was top of my high school (England). Just coasted through because I found it all really easy, so had much of the same attitude. To be honest I don't think my parents trying to find me better and harder work would have done anything at all for me. My teachers gave me work at a higher level but I wasn't too bothered about that either.

My work ethic came after I started college after my GCSEs and was suddenly among people much brighter than me, combined with a shock low grade in my first Biology exam. That lit a fire under my butt for sure and I learnt that I couldn't just coast any more. The work ethic stayed with me and next week I'll be defending my PhD!

All this to say that your son may be naturally talented at this stage of school, and then perhaps he will go to the next level and find that he's actually pretty average and has to put in the work to get good results - and in my experience this was much more useful for developing a good work ethic than any extra work anyone gave me at GCSE level! So I wouldn't say anything to the maths teacher, their job is to prepare pupils for the exams they will be having. If you want to try and make your son work more, that's on you - you can always look up the college curriculum for maths, I'm sure it's available online!