Re this math teacher's response

[Diorama1]

I am contemplating emailing the teacher to discuss his response to an issue with my son.
My DS is 14 and is in 2nd year (in Ireland and its the year before your GSCE year). He is very bright and very good at maths. He is doing higher level maths.

He is not a math genius or gifted but he does find it all very easy, he grasps the concepts quickly and has an excellent understanding.
His average in his maths tests this year is 98% and the things he got wrong were only simple errors from rushing eg saying 21 divided by 3 was 3 instead of 7.

We had his parent teacher meetings this week. I dont think what they are like in the UK but here we go around the PE hall and sit for 5 mins with some 10/11 teachers while parents stand behind in a queue waiting their turn. There is little time to discuss and almost no privacy.

I went to his math teacher and he said he was working very well, excellent scores and advised he should keep up studying as things will get harder. I told him that he loves maths but is finding the pace too slow, that he never opens a book at home and wont study for any tests as he knows how to do it. I asked for ways to bring back his interest and to encourage him back into maths. I said I try to get him to study and practice the questions at home but he hates going over what he already knows.

The teacher got very defensive and said the exams were all about rewarding those who study and not those who were good at maths, he said he has to practice the sample questions. He said he has taught many children 10 times better at maths than my son and that if he kept up refusing to revise he would do badly in his exams. He said if he gave my son the same test now as he sat in Sept he was sure my son would do badly in it as he would have forgotten the concepts.

I was a bit taken a back and didnt really respond at the time.

On reflection thought I am very disappointed with his attitude. I was seeking ways to encourage my son back into a love of maths and all he did was advise he repeat work he already knows which I told him is what is killing his enjoyment in the first place. He acted like I was saying my son was a math prodigy and he wanted to put me in my place by saying he has taught much brighter children than him.

DS was doing this level of maths work 3 years ago on his own.

AIBU to expect a better response from an educator and to email him about it?

DS came home yesterday and asked did I say anything to the teacher about him as in class the teacher said that some kids are not putting the work in at home and if that continues they will be moved from the higher level class. DS said the teacher was glaring at him while he said this!

Also if there are any maths teacher on here that have any advice on what DS can do, I would be very grateful.

I was good at maths, head and shoulders above almost everyone in my year. I now have a degree in it. I'd complete an exercise in about 1/4 the time the rest of the form would take and get 100% in GCSE, A-level and A-level further (pure) without any revision. I found further mechanics a bit harder, but when I'd got there, well I got nearly 100% on one of my final's papers in mechanics.

My maths teachers didn't need to challenge me because I'd finish the exercise, occasionally they had an extension, but I'd settle down with the work and work round the subject.
I remember working out what x! meant on the calculator and being really excited. I showed the teacher and they showed me a couple of things I could do using that.
And I'd work out how something worked by first principals.
Or take a book from the side of the room (far easier now with google) and try something totally different.

I'd do maths exercises at home for fun. I still like a nice maths equation challenge.

My point is, that if he is challenged by maths and good at it, he doesn't need the teacher to be pushing him. There's so much out there, much easier than when I was at school, that he can use to challenge himself if he wants to. You can use the methods you've learnt to do so much more fun things. If he's good at maths he doesn't need the teacher to lead him.

I think you both miscommunicated. You sounded like you were saying your DS finds the teacher's lessons too easy and he can ace the tests without doing any work. The teacher sounded like he didn't understand you were really asking for advice and doubled down on a child he sees as not doing the work that is expected of him.

I would leave it, but if you do communicate with school again I would not criticise the teacher for his comments (no headmaster will side with a parent against a teacher that is simply saying you need to revise in order to succeed in exams), but instead emphasise that you are supportive of the teacher's aims but would appreciate advice as to how to motivate your son at home.

I suspect it will all blow over so long as your son continues to get 98%, but if those grades begin to slip he will get very little sympathy is he refuses to put the work in.

The child is in Ireland so won't be doing GCSEs.

OP

You have not given enough of the correct information.

His 90%+ score is that on just the latest bit he has learned or is it overall? So do they learn eg Pythagoras and then do a quiz?If so then the teacher is right, he need to be able to apply that in a different context or as part of a question.

Is your son one of the, "Why do we have to do this? We did it last year" when what you did last year was the foundation, I'm recapping so we can build on this.

If he can confidently complete the Irish version of GCSE and score 90% then I think you have a point, but is he really that far ahead of the class?

@PJHashem thanks for your response. I completely understand that teachers especially in maths are under a lot of pressure due to a variation in the ability of children in class. I would not expect the teacher to single out my child for more time and attention. I was at a parent teacher meeting asking the teacher for some help in getting my child to study and if he could identify resources we could use. I dont think that is a big ask of a teacher.

I had every teacher that evening tell me the child id rushing through the work and not working to the best of his ability but when I ask for help I am "that parent" simply because he is doing well in the exams by an objective standard.

I have been told there is a problem with him not studying which I can see, I am trying to find ways around it.

Sorry I haven't read all the posts but just the OPs, but to me it sounds like a miscommunication with the teacher!
I'm an ex-tutor and I personally think it's really important to instil a love of maths!
Maybe have a look at the UKMT maths challenges? (https://ukmt.org.uk/) There are different levels. They are more puzzle-type questions that are meant to be fun and challenging!

He gets mid to high 90's in all tests some of which are on specific topics and some are summer/christmas tests. Its mainly 100% on topics - 98% is his average overall.

He won mathematician of the year in primary every year from 3rd to 6th class. He was doing his current level of work (2nd year) in 5th class so 3 years ago.

Oh your son sounds very much like I was. Self taught from the textbooks, preferred to work in bursts and worked ahead in the book, then focussed on other things for a bit then came back to maths again. At your son's age I had a teacher for 2 years who said she'd give me extension work but only on the condition that I did the class work when the class were doing it not working ahead - result I got very bored and dropped behind at times. Still aced the exams.

The saving grace for me was getting involved in olympiad maths, so I had truly challenging problems to get my teeth into. Alongside that doing class exercises and challenging myself not to get things wrong was more manageable. I have to say I was 15/16 the year I properly started working on eliminating silly mistakes (that was the only thing I needed to do to get top marks in chemistry for example - not UK and our syllabuses didn't go nearly far enough at school).

I've had a quick look at the Irish maths olympiad site - they offer some material and also it appears there are enrichment classes October to Dec/January. Your son may well be ready for these by October even if he is below the age they target them at so I would make enquiries now and point him at problem solving. The UK maths trust material that several people have mentioned is fantastic, and he should dive into that systematically and see how he gets on.

Although you are right that he needs to extend his maths out sideways rather than just working ahead in the school texts, as long as he completes classwork (in class probably sufficient) then let him do stuff at his own pace, he will get more bored feeling "I mustn't do X" "I have to do Y" than if he can follow his instincts and interests.

Shame about the other extension classes - I wonder if you should look at them again to see if what is offered for an older age group will start to suit him better.

Good luck.

He clearly needs to apply some self-discipline.

I'm sure he isn't really but he's coming over a little bit cocky.

It's great being bright and picking things up quickly but he needs to apply himself and find some self-motivation - he'll need that for A-levels and university

He also needs to re-read his answers. I'm assuming he finishes ahead of time? Then he won't make elementary mistakes.

But outside of school, are there not websites for kids working ahead of their peers?
Maybe a specific aspect of maths he could develop?

For the record, I don’t think you’re that parent.
I also don’t think it’s a teacher’s responsibility on telling you how to get your child to study. That’s the role of a parent and I have zero power on what a student does outside of class time. Provide resources? Possibly. assuming that the school is well resourced and has them to offer. You could perhaps send a follow up email asking for links/book titles that may be useful.

I am not sure that your issue is solely with the Maths teacher, as it seems all the teachers said the same thing?

I'm sure he isn't really but he's coming over a little bit cocky

I mean, with those results, is there really an issue with being a bit cocky? He's very good!

My son's similar - fantastic grades, only marred by silly mistakes (and poor handwriting). I know he's got the maths under control, so he just concentrates on other subjects more, and if I want to stretch him, we talk about exam techniques (not rushing and making silly mistakes for instance!)

I think the trouble with differentiation at this level is that there's a curriculum they have to follow for JC, and so differentiation has to be for fun. For JC they just need to consolidate what they know.

Mind you, if the teacher is threatening bouncing him out of higher, then that needs to be watched - happened to me at school, they decided to put everyone in to the intermediate paper, which meant me and a few others couldn't get a higher grade than a B (long time ago), which the intermediate paper maxed out on.

@Diorama1
if he was doing the current level of work three years ago, where was he doing it? At school? Or self study? If the latter he could carry on in the same vein. Does the Irish system hVe Further Maths or Additional Maths at Junior Cert ?

I think you're getting something of a rough ride here OP. It isn't ideal to be repeating easy work when you're already bored. Doing next year's maths risks not understanding it properly and/or being even more bored next year. Some ideas:

Nrich is an excellent start.

Chess. If a beginner, Gary Kasparov Checkmate or Levy Rozman's How to Win at Chess. Levy also has a youtube channel with the name Gotham Chess.

Martin Gardner puzzles, or the GCHQ puzzles for spies books.

Alex Bellos' Monday puzzles in the guardian.

I have known lots of dc who absolutely loved maths , my dc being one.Without exception they were seeking out maths knowledge to extend themselves off their own bat, especially by 14!!

In work atm, but set him a task to research “knot theory”.

If he finds things too easy now and doesn't put much effort in then when the difficulty ramps up he won't be able to cope, I used to say to the more able, and their parents, that they have to be prepared for the brick wall when they will need to study hard. Often the pupils who have coasted through 7,8,9 find 10 and 11 horrendous because they don't have the study skills.
Also repeating work he can do is developing exam techniques, so often a pupil would say Oh, I didn't realise it meant that! The same skills can be tested in many different ways.

Think this is very good advice.

Teacher here. The teacher you mention isn't a performing monkey. We can't all be teachers like Robin Williams' character in Dead Poet's Society! If your son is truly gifted in Maths and interested he should be more than capable of finding the extra material you are after. Remember that teacher's priority is the whole class's achievements not just to stimulate your 'talented' son. Practically that will mean teaching to the exam spec mostly.

Does you son's school offer extra challenges in Maths? Could you perhaps politely ask for any details. Ultimately it's up to your son to motivate himself and I do know how difficult that can be with teenagers.

I actually think these are two separate issues

1. Your son picks things up quickly and is ready for the next challenge . ( teacher possibly got defensive as he can’t provide any faster a pace )
2. The teacher is probably correct unless you revise /refresh for examines you will have forgot the old material and remembered the new stuff .

No new advice but great resources recommend here, thanks

Hi @Diorama1 I completely understand your concerns. I think it’s the way the maths guy responded to your concerns that wasn’t what you expected.
However, I think what you’re saying you want is, for your son to learn more breadth - so learning across the subject yes? So not necessarily that he’ll rush on ahead then find his maths lessons boring - but just other ways he can be learning maths whilst still getting on ok during school time.

My DS loves maths. We had similar issues with him but we helped him to find websites and other types of logical problem solving that boosted his love of it.
He was trying to do this prime number challenge to be the first person in the world to find something or other about a prime pattern (I have no idea what 😂) and then he loves chess and watching chess on YouTube. So maybe trying to find other maths-related things your DS might like other than the maths he does for gcse revision might help him get a bit more inspired. DS also loves architecture so structural building/designing apps might be worth a look at to see if there’s anything there he likes.

Another thing my DS got interested in (and now he’s 18 has successfully managed to do in real life), is to learn about the stock market and there is a really cool app where you can ‘buy’ shares and it looks like/tracks eat time the real stock market. Obviously it’s not real and it doesn’t include what you’d pay for fees etc but it gives them a really good insight into the global market and all that’s to do with buying and selling stocks and shares. I’ll ask him later what the app is called but I think it’s ’Stock Market Simulator’.

In his GCSE year, he did these practice papers below which were really helpful…. A local private school uses them for their students all the time.
https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/

I'll get flamed for this but this is the difference with private. If you go to the teacher with this kind of concern they would be only too glad to provide you with references, further resources and would love to have parents like you asking these types of questions. Even if they disagreed with you, they would never ever speak to you like that or dare take it out on your ds the next day. My ds is much smaller but excellent at a subject and I asked the teacher at the parents meeting for further resources to challenge him and he was more than happy to provide me with them. Not only that, he emailed me a few days later to check if we were able to get through them and ds should come chat to him if he wants to bring any questions to him outside the curriculum. I don't think Yabu, that teacher was so rude about this.

Looking over your messages again what strikes me is it seems that most teachers are saying don't rush and be more thorough. I promise you that most, if not all, his teachers will be modelling how to be thorough in answers. He needs to listen to that and act on advice.

There are hundreds of YouTube channels that cater for this type of advice. I know of at least 3 English teachers who cater for top tier GCSE answers on YouTube. Try and find some for the subjects your are concerned about for your son. Or better still he should do the research! That really isn't up to the teaching staff.

Don't mess it up for your son. He's got the rest of his life to pursue higher level courses.

I totally agree with you on this.
Our local private school I wrote about in my post above, actually have a business where their tutors work in their own time to tutor people. One of their amazing maths tutors taught DS in his gcse year and the difference to state was noticeable. The guy’s enthusiasm was immeasurable! He really inspired my son.

I had every teacher that evening tell me the child id rushing through the work and not working to the best of his ability

Then this is what needs addressing. He needs to nail the basics and his attitude.