When Exactly did Trans/Non Binary Become So Commonplace?

[miniaturepixieonacid]

This isn't to start (yet another!) debate on the rights and wrongs of gender identification, transitioning etc. Just pondering on how quickly and in what year it became so common.

I'm just watching an old episode of Waterloo Road (Drama set in a comprehensive school) where one of the characters (Casey Barry for anyone who watched it) realises that she wants to be a boy rather than a tomboy and everyone reacts as if it's extremely unusual. The other pupils mock and bully her, her brother gets violent and tells her she is disgusting and a freak and the teachers talk about what a difficult road she has ahead and how much support she will need.

The episode is set in 2013. Not the 1990s. Only just over 10 years ago. But in a Year 10/11 class in a comprehensive in 2024 this wouldn't even raise an eyebrow, would it. There will be several trans and non binary pupils (maybe even several per year group) and pupils would consider it normal.

I teach in a prep school (only goes up to Year 8) so we haven't actually yet had a single pupil transition to the opposite gender. There's one 10 year old who I could potentially see it happening to over the next couple of years but it hasn't yet. So I'm relatively unknowledgable about the whole thing.

Interested to know from secondary school teachers who have been teaching for 10+ years what year you think it was that transitioning and being non binary went from rare to a relatively popular trend.

They're not the men who want access to the ladies though @2pence - most decent men are as horrified as we are.

Yes, but sometimes you need to bring the issue to the people with the power and we do live in a patriarchal society.

Currently the issue doesn't affect most men, so why worry?

Perhaps an epiphany is the answer?

I wonder if some of these trans people who existed back in history were in fact intersex ?

Then there are the cases of women/ girls impersonating men / boys because they knew it was more beneficial for them to do so .

Some will have been people with DSDs, for sure.

Some will have been homosexual in societies that doesn’t permit that, like now. Iran, and other cultures that deal with homosexuality this way.

Some will have been men with autogynephilia, like now.

Some will have been people with body dysmorphia, like now.

Some will have been females struggling with their sexual orientation and the historical rigid societal constraints of women, like now.

However, the historical existence of the same mix of people to today doesn’t mean there exists a thing that has always existed called “gender identity” that exists in all of us that can somehow occasionally be in the “wrong body”.

It just means that historically the same mix of different people has always existed.

One of the subgroups of this mix of people stands to gain a great deal more by being coalesced into one thing called “trans” that is an identity deserving of its own rights. And funnily enough that subgroup is the one doing the educating and is the most prominent in activism.

Spot on 🙂

Of course! That was sort of the whole point of it, did you see the part of my comment where I said that this person acknowledged they still have a male body? That is the point of greater education, so that healthcare professionals know how to broach these conversations in order to prevent health inequalities. Trans men for example may well still have a cervix and need smear tests, trans women will almost certainly have a prostate and need PSA screening, and so on. I believe there is a middle ground between denying the rights of trans people and denying biological fact. All of the trans people I have met thus far have also understood this.

I 'the fuck' care when we're giving medical intervention to young/vulnerable people and stripping away women's rights.

Did you not see the part of my comment where they acknowledged they still have the body of a male? What's vital is that HCPs have an understanding of trans people in order to prevent health inequalities. We can respect pronouns and wishes, but people also need to be offered the appropriate tests and treatment for them.

We're third year physiotherapy students. She just told us her own story and gender dysphoria diagnosis and explained how every trans person is different. She didn't expect people to necessarily understand, only that she be treated with tolerance and respect by HCPs treating her, which is hardly asking a lot.

This demands weren't made by trans women, they're standards of practice written by the HCPC/NMC/GMC etc. based on laws and peer reviewed guidance.

I am not sure how effective this would be. I am skeptical of the idea that somehow if more men spoke out, it would be given more weight.

In my experience, men are more often skeptical about GI than women, and a lot just keep quiet because of their jobs, or because in the past they've been told they have to keep quiet about issues because of their privilege.

In my experience, men are more often skeptical about GI than women, and a lot just keep quiet because of their jobs, or because in the past they've been told they have to keep quiet about issues because of their privilege

Further compounded by many thinking that all 'TW' have undergone bottom surgery. Once DH realised that 95% of them do not, his view changed very sharply.

they're standards of practice written by the HCPC/NMC/GMC etc. based on laws and peer reviewed guidance.

And who lobbied them, do you think?

He. Women's and men's bodies are different and I would expect a physio to know that.

This - the naivety is amazing.

Indeed.
They just woke up one day and apropos of nothing got out pen and paper and started drafting these things out?

If you can hear bells it's cos someone pulled my other leg.

Lol I was clearly joking, and HE is my boyfriend. If you met him, you would have no clue he was born female.

To be honest a lot of Trans people, my boyfriend included acknowledge the obvious increase in it among young people as part of the social media trend.

As well as many are frustrated by the amount of non binary people who claim they are trans. Especially since they aren't as being trans means you transition to the opposite sex. As well as the demand for they/them pronouns has increased frustration in the public that is then taken out on trans people.

But unfortunately these conversations with people who share his views, or trans women like Blair White who has a very large platform are not discussed because it's easier to ignore all trans people and call them by their original pronouns just to make a point that you don't believe them.

There are a lot of trans people who agree with many points discussed on MN, but their voices will never be heard because it's too important to people like you that they know they are delusional and should not expect even the tiniest bit of respect.

It's a shame really. Bridges could be built, but your comment above on my " girlfriend" shows why they won't be until people can communicate with respect on both sides.

This pettiness of using pronouns to disregard someone who identifies as male, is needlessly cruel and attacks someone who is an incredible ally to women.

It seems like taking out anger on an innocent person because some trans people are misogynistic assholes.

“man Friday” were an activist group of women identifying as men to swim in the men’s ponds at one of the London parks, as the women’s pond began allowing men in.
The men unsurprisingly didn’t like this and the police were called and the women removed, the men were unable to see the bigger picture and the wider point being made.
sorry my memory of the details is hazy, I do remember crochet beards were involved.
Not sure what the eventual outcome was but at the time male people had 3 ponds to swim and women needing a single sex space had none, how is that inclusive??

I remember that @Turning - wonder what did happen? I remember being enraged that the police turned up to make the women leave and yet men could swim when it should be women only with no police intervention to support women at all!

That is a shame. Because I have listened to posters with experiences such as you and have been very careful to talk about the extreme activists that make the demands many feminists reject. And not ‘all trans people’. Because we have also had female trans people on the feminist board who have told us that they agree with many of our points. (Note it is mostly female trans people that have indicated that they understand the need for same sex spaces and the need to prioritise sex when sex matters. Not always. But mostly)

being trans means you transition to the opposite sex
But that's not possible? Surely being trans involves feeling as if you are the opposite sex, or trying to live according to opposite gender roles. But sex can't be changed.

Effective lobbying, isn’t it?

For a so-called “marginalised group” they manage to make it very clear what they want, don’t they?

Dont let fear of wrongthink erode your individual and professional boundaries.

Yes I did see that part. But the limitations of this seminar and your naivety means you haven’t been made fully aware of what it would mean if a male in the AGP subgroup came to you for treatment.

Personally, I would refuse to partake in someone’s paraphilia by using wrong sex pronouns and laying my hands on them.

Not only did were the wrong sex pronouns lobbied for, they kept it so that future students wouldn’t even be aware of it. Very effective.

Yes, “trans” covers a number of groups.

• The effeminate, gender non-conforming boys. These are the ones who, if left alone, would be healthy and usually gay men. If given Puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones they end up with the genitals of a prepubescent boy, infertile and unable to orgasm. They look female though
• The austistic, mentally unwell damaged girls. Often express distress around the time of puberty. Seem to cluster in social groups but this is NOT a contagion, apparently. Even though it clearly is
• The AGP men. All over the internet, sadly, with their “euphoria” boners getting off on wearing women’s clothes. Are sexually attracted to the idea of themselves as women. It’s ALL about the clothes. This group are excited by transgressing women’s boundaries. They turn up in toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards 🙄, single sex swimming places. They are very vocal about rheir “rights”. The middle-ages ones have often fathered children, now called “mother”.