When Exactly did Trans/Non Binary Become So Commonplace?

[miniaturepixieonacid]

This isn't to start (yet another!) debate on the rights and wrongs of gender identification, transitioning etc. Just pondering on how quickly and in what year it became so common.

I'm just watching an old episode of Waterloo Road (Drama set in a comprehensive school) where one of the characters (Casey Barry for anyone who watched it) realises that she wants to be a boy rather than a tomboy and everyone reacts as if it's extremely unusual. The other pupils mock and bully her, her brother gets violent and tells her she is disgusting and a freak and the teachers talk about what a difficult road she has ahead and how much support she will need.

The episode is set in 2013. Not the 1990s. Only just over 10 years ago. But in a Year 10/11 class in a comprehensive in 2024 this wouldn't even raise an eyebrow, would it. There will be several trans and non binary pupils (maybe even several per year group) and pupils would consider it normal.

I teach in a prep school (only goes up to Year 8) so we haven't actually yet had a single pupil transition to the opposite gender. There's one 10 year old who I could potentially see it happening to over the next couple of years but it hasn't yet. So I'm relatively unknowledgable about the whole thing.

Interested to know from secondary school teachers who have been teaching for 10+ years what year you think it was that transitioning and being non binary went from rare to a relatively popular trend.

The issue of these organisations defining sexual orientation based on gender not sex is most definitely impacting our children. A couple of years ago, I overheard a group of 15 year old lesbians talking. Just amongst themselves. The group made sure all agreed that lesbians were only attracted to women. That included only trans people who were transwomen.

The most vocal made sure all those young women knew that attraction to any transboys would make them straight.

This is a significant issue where these lesbians are desperate to fit in and be part of the community so adopt the lobby group definitions. This is the harm being done.

I remember that storyline and the character explores her gender identity and then detransitions and is happy as a girl which I think back then would be a more realistic example of how children used to explore gender identity but I don't think it would be allowed to be portrayed like that now especially when you compare with a show such as Holly oaks which is popular with young people they wouldn't dream of doing a detransition story

I have said this many times. These children will die before their parents. Young girls will be tipped into early menopause, osteoporosis, they will suffer painful vaginal atrophy, need hysterectomy. Have no sexual function, be infertile.
It is absolutely horrific.
As someone who has lost an adult child this breaks my heart. The guilt these parents will feel will be unbearable.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/989471

A 7X increase in strokes and heart attacks too (from a study of 21000 trans people, both women and men).

I didn't refer to trans men in my comment, and I don't know the numbers, nor would I pretend to. I'm neither 'pro' or 'anti' trans or whatever you wish to call it, so no need for adversarial replies. I'm simply pointing out that trans people exist, and perhaps further education is needed for all. This is particularly true of those in certain professional roles where their regulatory body requires them to conduct themselves in a way that is respectful and inclusive, irrespective of gender identity.

Out of interest, did the person giving the seminar also then give you direction on unique needs associated with the hormonal treatment for each sex for people with trans identities? I assume you are a Physio or a physio student, apologies if this is a wrong assumption. However, I would believe that the physio treatments for anyone with a trans identity still needs to be considered from their sex point of view not their gender. I mean muscle type from the starting point will be different and while there is much commonality, there is some differences to consider. An example might be a female taking testosterone but will still have ovaries so might still have hormones that affect ligament during the menstrual cycle. So on one hand you might have a stronger than normal female but still with ligaments prone to higher risk of damage at particular times of the cycle.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I guess this is what I am seeking to understand.

Were there any unique needs mentioned ?

Would it be too far fetched to ask whether there is a major financial benefit for big pharmaceutical companies to push the trans agenda and therefore that is what has happened to see hormones and gender affirming treatments??

trans people exist, and perhaps further education is needed for all.

Whats your definition of trans people?

Sharron Davies talked about the East German female athletes who were given Testosterone in the 70s/ 80s dying young from heart attacks and strokes. I knew someone who transitioned mtf in their 20s and died aged 40 from a massive stroke. It was attributed to the oestrogen.

Yes I know you didn’t refer to trans men. I’m interested in whether the male who identifies as trans mentioned the females affected. Because they rarely do. And because they rarely do people who they are claiming to “educate” with such seminars aren’t aware of the massive uptick in teenage girls claiming a trans identity. Which is evident, because despite you describing it as “really interesting” this remarkable fact of massive uptick wasn’t even mentioned.

My reply to you was to demonstrate that just because a male came and spoke, doesn’t mean you have been told all the facts and what you were told needs to be questioned, because it is all coming from the perspective of a male (I suspect middle aged).

I'm simply pointing out that trans people exist, and perhaps further education is needed for all

When a male says “trans people have always existed” who does it benefit for that to be true? We know a proportion of males who say they’re trans have autogynephilia. Was that part of the education? When a male ignores the huge uptick of females and doesn't even mention it, or denies the possibility of social contagion, is that in the best interest of those teenage girls? Is that decent further education?

Ask yourself that question from my post; if it’s only now that teenage girls have the freedom to express how they feel, why isn’t there a similar number of women in their 30s, 40s, 50s etc also expressing the same given they have the same freedom?

This is particularly true of those in certain professional roles where their regulatory body requires them to conduct themselves in a way that is respectful and inclusive, irrespective of gender identity.

What this usually means is “take a male’s view of things at face value and don’t question anything.”

This is particularly true of those in certain professional roles where their regulatory body requires them to conduct themselves in a way that is respectful and inclusive, irrespective of gender identity

What do you mean by “inclusive” in this context?

In a professional setting I will be respectful to people whose beliefs I don’t share. This includes those with different religious beliefs and also those who believe in the 107 genders.

I wonder what the man with a trans identify demanded of you all in the name of inclusivity? Pronouns? Access to female spaces? Sadly, including men into female spaces means that women are excluded from same sex environments.

thats all these “trans people have always existed” arguments are, people who didn’t fit rigid social roles who were forced out of their own sex class box onto other made up more socially acceptable boxes.

Exactly. Why do some people insist that someone who lived 100, 200, 500 years ago was trans, rather than considering the obvious - namely that the social norms for both sexes might have been so rigid that they didn’t leave any space for people who for whatever reason didn’t fulfill the stereotypes associated with their sex?

Yes I know you didn’t refer to trans men. I’m interested in whether the male who identifies as trans mentioned the females affected

And I agree that the trans individual “educating” health care professionals won’t have been a woman. Only a transwoman would have the balls to meet with a group of HCAs and outline their struggles and demands 🙄

Good point about treatment, and I would say it’s also vital that a female physio is fully cognisant of what it actually means to be treating a male with AGP if she’s going to lay her hands on him…

Our kids go to a secondary school in a predominantly working class area and being trans/ nonbinary doesn’t seem to be a thing at all.

This person is not a she.

I guess sexually you could say I'm attracted to a hot piece of ass

Lovely way to speak about your girlfriend. 🙄

It is a huge injustice to retrospectively transition any female in history to support a statement that ‘there was always trans people’. I would suspect that women and girls claimed to be the opposite sex due to extreme negative sexist discrimination, sexist behaviour and for their protection.

James Barry, Jeanne d’Arc, and at least one soldier in the USA civil war are some that immediately come to mind who have been retrospectively claimed as transgender individuals. Unless those women expressly stated they are transgender, then it is very dishonest to frame their decisions as such. Women joining the military (particularly to get medical training and live on a ship) was impossible unless that woman took on a male persona. Yet, this fact has been used against these women. And as far as Jeanne is concerned, what was it that has meant she has been claimed? That she wore male stereotyped clothes? Really?? That she rallied around and got support? Well fuck that one, if that is the case.

I agree it's very much a white middle class phenomenon. The vast majority of students at my school are black African. We have a small number of white middle class students; 100% of the trans id children are from that demographic.

I had stonewall training back in the day. They had a sheet with definitions like this, but the word gender wasn't there - lesbians were same sex attracted, for example. They have completely changed their own definitions.

Most people would agree that there is a difference between biological sex and the social construct of gender.
How common is genuine gender dysphoria though, as opposed to people simply not conforming to the stereotypes associated with their sex?
And sure, people who didn’t fulfill sex based social expectations have probably always existed - just as different personalities have always existed.

They have completely changed their own definitions.

Not only that, they have redefined words to their own definitions and tried to make the rest of us go along with it. Because in Stonewall Land “men” is defined as men and women and “women” is defined as women and men.

So all of those definitions on those webpages needs to be considered in the context that Stonewall believe these definitions to be true:

Heterosexual/straight

Refers to a man or a woman who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards men or women or to a woman or a man who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards men or women.

🤡🌎

I think you're on the money here.

The autistic trans person I know (female to male presenting with he/him pronouns) was bullied at school by the boys as a girl. Told they were an ugly lesbian, had their hair set alight by boy sat behind them.

While this boy was punished for the lighter ignition incident, the other ongoing sexist behaviour was overlooked as "boys will be boys" stuff. If you're a girl who's not considered conventionally attractive (by porn standards) then you're fair game for misogynistic abuse while the teachers look the other way. There is a level of protection in place for Trans Identity that is absent for girls and women.

Since transitioning this young person enjoys the protection that comes with this new characteristic. Any comment on their looks or their general person is dealt with with the gravity that this discriminatory behaviour deserves. I can totally see the attraction and lament that it took transitioning for this person to have the protection that should have always been in place for them in school.

I noticed the same with mums groups around that time. Also the stock phrases.
I was in a parenting FB group where the mods made an announcement in about 2016 how to address (and not address) each other from now on, how many types of genders (and hence types of families) there were, and so on. It was fairly sudden and quite rigid.

I've definitely considered this when there's been a long loo for the ladies and the men swan in and out of the gents.

I would guess most men wouldn't enjoy peeing at the urinals while a women stands by them waiting for the cubicle to be free. I guess it would make them feel rather uncomfortable. Perhaps making men feel uncomfortable about a woman in their toilet would be a good place to start?