To think this yoga policy is really unfair?

[CalmerChameleons]

I attend a yoga class where you pay in advance for a term.

If you can't make a class because you're ill or whatever, you can't get a refund, it's just tough. This I think is totally fair enough because it's not the teacher's fault you're ill and they'd lose money on the gym room (they don't work directly for the gym as you book separately) if everyone cancelled and they refunded.

However.

It's turned out that if the yoga teacher himself cancels, you don't get a refund either! He cancelled last term because he was ill, and he cancelled one last week because he had childcare issues. Last time he said he'd just give us some money off this term's sessions, and he's said the same this time. But I think this policy is really unfair and I don't actually want to book with him again.

He's pointed me to his terms and conditions when I said I wanted a refund, and to be fair that's what it says, no refund, just a class credit. But this seems really unfair when I didn't want him to cancel, I would have liked to have gone to the class!

AIBU to think he should refund us if he cancels? Both times it's been very last minute as well.

Yoga teacher here, if someone cancels I'll try my best to help them reschedule but it does leave me short so can't always do it unless lots of notice given. But if I cancel I will always move them to another class or refund.

Tell him he is not practicing Asteya if he takes your money in this way!

Of course it isn't. You would have to sign up for more sessions in order to get your money back!

I run batches of classes too and don't generally offer refunds. If I have to cancel (and I very rarely do) I add a class at the end of term if possible or carry over credit to the next term. Very ocassionally someone says they're not continuing next term in which case I would give a refund if they asked.

“Class credit which can be used as you wish - reasonable. Class credit which only applies if you book another long course - not reasonable.”

This. He must offer you the class credit in the term for which you have already paid, otherwise he has simply taken money and failed to provide a service. That’s wrong.

Find a new yoga class and leave a bad review about him not refunding the lessons.

I’ve run a business where I ask for the fees upfront for the term. I also refunded if I needed to cancel… that seems only fair. I guess you can choose to have compassion as he’s clearly going through a tough time if he’s had to cancel twice, or explain you won’t be doing another term and you’d like the money back for the service he didn’t provide (otherwise it is effectively theft but no need to say this at this stage).

Terms have to reasonable by law so just because you signed and agreed to them doesn’t automatically mean they’re enforceable.

His contract terms are unenforceable because they’re clearly unfair to the consumer. When he breaks the contract by not providing the service, he then wants you to enter into a new contract and purchase a further course. What if he does once on every course he runs? This would never stand up in court.

If you don’t intend carrying on with his classes, put in writing that you’d like a refund for the missed classes because you won’t be attending the next course and see what he says.

If he refuses to refund you, (doubtful), tell him you’ll have no alternative but to take him to the county court.

Not worth fussing over?? 😳

I think it’s worth pointing out that what he’s doing is unethical.

Imagine if he misses at least one class every single term in order to ensure that his next term has several participants booked from the previous class before he’s even advertised it?

Exactly this. Just because he has it in writing doesnt mean it's legal. It's not fair of him to expect you to enter into another contract just because he cancelled which is not your fault. Contact trading standards and write to him requesting a refund.

Class credit for cancelled classes is very normal. It saves on the admin and costs of refunding everyone individually.

Usually you should be able get one if you ask, so maybe he should tweak that rule, but if you’re planning on carrying on, I don’t see the problem?

I agree and while I wouldn't go as far as taking someone to court if I were in the OP's shoes, I would be making it very clear to them that their contract is unfair and unenforceable.

Refunds are probably a huge pain to administer and will have a financial impact so when the majority are rolling over to the next term, it makes sense to add a class on rather than deal with the admin of a refund. But for those that do not want it to be replaced with another class (and no justification is needed why), there absolutely needs to be an option for a full refund.

My yoga teacher does a refund if the venue cancels, a credit if she has to cancel, and if we cancel with 24 hours notice we get a class credit. She has a waiting list so could cover my place if I cancelled though.
She’s running a business, so I think her terms are fair.

You haven’t said if he’s given the class credits to you or not.
most yoga teachers have a circle of teacher friends and they all help out as a cover when someone is ill if it’s possible at short notice. It’s not foolproof obviously but it sounds like he doesn’t have this

I couldn't be arsed with someone that unreliable anyways.

Have you actually gone back to him and said "I won't be continuing next term, please give me a refund instead?"

I'm assuming that if he isn't a complete arsehole he would do this, no matter what his T&Cs say. But if you haven't asked him, there's a lot of mumsnetters getting frothed up here for not a lot of good reason.

Why not just save the credits and tell him you’ll use them at the start of next term but won’t be booking the full block?

That's the other thing. Why couldn't he just get a replacement? I guess am also assuming this is possible and usual (it would be in my case) to be able to find another teacher because I am based in London. But there is a huge network of yoga teachers here. I suppose if you were in another part of the country it could be more of an issue.

I am under the impression that legally they have to offer a refund no matter what theyhasvr in his T&Cs. You cannot charge for services you did not provide. Same as airlines must offer a refund for flights cancelled or changed unless the customer agrees to be moved to another flight. And same with businesses who couldn't offer pre-booked services when covid hit. I'm not a lawyer though.

This is standard practice, all my kids clubs I just either get a credit or an additional session at some point.

Usually in these circumstances as a teacher you know other teachers socially and would ask one of them to cover for you

Seems unfair that you need to pay for 9 lessons to get the replacement lesson you were due anyway according to their T’s &C’s

If you choose to work for yourself as he has, sickness pay is not a benefit you get. He’s taking the piss.

So if you have to pay for another entire term in order to get the credits ? That’s ridiculous and means you are trapped into continuing to pay.

Exactly- he could go off sick every single term meaning that you are forced to continue signing up forever just to claw your money back. That's not right and I don't think its legal either.

True! I've always signed up for future terms so has never been an issue. Potentially in that situation would ask for a refund.