To think this yoga policy is really unfair?

[CalmerChameleons]

I attend a yoga class where you pay in advance for a term.

If you can't make a class because you're ill or whatever, you can't get a refund, it's just tough. This I think is totally fair enough because it's not the teacher's fault you're ill and they'd lose money on the gym room (they don't work directly for the gym as you book separately) if everyone cancelled and they refunded.

However.

It's turned out that if the yoga teacher himself cancels, you don't get a refund either! He cancelled last term because he was ill, and he cancelled one last week because he had childcare issues. Last time he said he'd just give us some money off this term's sessions, and he's said the same this time. But I think this policy is really unfair and I don't actually want to book with him again.

He's pointed me to his terms and conditions when I said I wanted a refund, and to be fair that's what it says, no refund, just a class credit. But this seems really unfair when I didn't want him to cancel, I would have liked to have gone to the class!

AIBU to think he should refund us if he cancels? Both times it's been very last minute as well.

I do aerial skills. If our teacher cancels we get a free class? We don’t get a refund (though we can do) but I normally go for the free class

If I didn’t get that though I’d not carry on for sure

Okay so my business is in fitness classes, so I have a little expertise in this area. At minimum it's not great customer service, but it likely is not lawful. You are offering a fixed service on a defined date, if you cannot offer that service we are obligated to provide a full refund. Likewise under the law for something on a defined date we do not have to refund if you cannot attend, or decide you don't like it and wanted a refund (this is especially true if say it's a course booking for a 5 week yoga course and after 2 weeks you decided yoga wasn't for you).

Do you book a defined term ie '6 week course starting 10th January and for the 5 Wednesdays after ending on 14th February' or do you buy a '6 class pack'? Class packs can commonly be used over a longer period ie any 6 classes in 8 weeks, or across multiple classes ie if this gentleman was doing classes 3 nights a week and you could use it to come to any of them. This is the difference as to whether you're entitled to a refund, whether you booked on a defined date.

We offer a transfer to another class that week if a teacher cannot make it (and if it's short notice we actually offer 2 classes in lieu of the one we have to cancel) or a refund - student's choice.

I hope you get some answers, I do feel for him as a single person business it's very hard if you're ill and yes almost all halls etc would still charge for room hire if cancelled within a week or 48 hours or whatever their terms are, but it's also something you need to factor into your pricing model or have other yoga teachers locally you can call on to cover for you and then you pay them for their time if that's more viable for you. It doesn't excuse his rights to you his customer.

I don’t think he can just take the money though without the class or free class?

id ring citizen advice and get them to log it with trading standards. You can’t ring them yourself you see xx

I think he should give you the choice.

I used to work on a fee basis, per term (not for yoga) and I always made up any time when I had to cancel within the term. Most clients were happy with that.

If however they wanted to stop altogether, or couldn't make the sessions I offered as a replacement, I'd have refunded for missed sessions.

I think as others have said that the reason for this is that he has to pay for the venue regardless of whether the class goes ahead or not. It’s not perfect, but I think sometimes that is just part of the bargain when supporting sole traders or small businesses vs big businesses.

I’m a small business owner and would offer a refund, but that’s because my business model would allow me too. I completely understand how someone else’s may not.

Terms and condition don’t outrun the law.

A class credit is fine but you should be able to ask for a refund if you don’t intend to continue taking classes.

He can’t accept money for services he hasn’t provided. That’s illegal. If he reschedules, then that’s okay.

I don't think the fact he has to pay for the venue anyway, means he has to keep your fees when HE cancels.

That's a fixed cost he has to suck up. All businesses have fixed costs, like websites, insurance, materials, that are paid regardless.

If he finds he has other commitments like childcare that mean he can't be reliable, then he's in the wrong job, frankly.

The issue though is if he reschedules but has clients who can't attend at that time.

Have you told him @CalmerChameleons that you want to stop the class?

If so, what did he say?

So go to a class where you pay as you go.

I had this argument with a childminder once.

If a restaurant is closed because the chef is ill, there are no takings.

if you are self employed, it’s on you to plan for sickness/ holiday etc. If you can’t provide the service because you are sick, then you can’t charge for it. You need to make sure that the service is provided.

its not rocket science.

He probably hasn’t fully thought it through/ planned for it- I don’t think you need to
go full legal though!

No, unfair contract terms don't trump the law.

A class credit should not be discount off the next term - it should be exactly that - a credit to use at YOUR convenience/choice.

It shouldn’t be a discount off next term’s fees.

If the contract says ‘class credit’ and doesn’t specify it’s conditional on future purchases, I would argue you should get X more classes (without having to purchase) and then find a new class.

Reliability is so important - if he can’t make the class he needs a back up planned.

Class credit should work - though he doesn't seemed to have worked out how.
My teacher is pretty flexible. You can pay weekly or slightly cheaper in blocks of six. If you cancel 24 before she'll bump you along a class (as people start at different dates though she does try and get set blocks for easier bookeeping). If she cancels (very rarely) she credits the class (basically delays the start of the new block). So not a refund but a class credit.
The issue is people booking and then not turning up. She will still charge for the class as they have a reserved 'spot' that she could have sold to someone else if she knew. People don't like that but it's her income and she makes it clear at the start.

A free lesson next term would be fine.

Only getting that free lesson if you book for a whole new term would not be fine.

If the class credit is for the full value of the class that's fine. My instructor used to add an extra one on the end of the block if she had to cancel.

Most people preferred this to ger getting cover.

This used to happen with swimming lessons. I didn't mind the credit. But it would only happen once each term. Sounds like he's always off?! I just wouldn't bother with rebooking another term with him again. You could try leaving an honest review, to pre warn others.

But it means she has to carry on with the lessons. She might have been planning on stopping for all he knows, so I find the class credit option a bit cheeky.

He should just give his customers their money back if he’s not provided the service they paid for for a specific date.

Sounds a couple I went to. One would say she'd tag another class on for us but then offer say Friday Lunchtime when our class was Tuesday morning and if you couldn't go then "tough".

Another activity gave it as money off next term but she'd "forget" & if remnded say she had done so but her classes had gone up or that it was an 11 week term rather than 10, but then tell us term was finishing on xx date which was in fact just 10 weeks.

You can’t just put anything in your terms and conditions then tell consumers ‘tough luck, it’s in the T&C’ - as another poster pointed out, unfair T&C can be challenged legally.

I would do your reading on consumer protection law, tell him his T&C aren’t legally defensible and (if you feel strongly enough) say you want the money back otherwise you’re taking it to small claims court/trading standards.

I run baby classes and always refund on the odd occasion I’ve had to cancel a class. Could not justify taking people’s money and then not giving them what they’ve paid for. I see other competitors doing catch up classes etc. but it’s not for me.

If he offers a class credit without you having to book another term, that’s fine. If you have to book another term to benefit, that is unfair and he should offer a refund.

I would say to him that you won’t be continuing and that you would therefore like a refund of the missed classes.