To think this yoga policy is really unfair?

[CalmerChameleons]

I attend a yoga class where you pay in advance for a term.

If you can't make a class because you're ill or whatever, you can't get a refund, it's just tough. This I think is totally fair enough because it's not the teacher's fault you're ill and they'd lose money on the gym room (they don't work directly for the gym as you book separately) if everyone cancelled and they refunded.

However.

It's turned out that if the yoga teacher himself cancels, you don't get a refund either! He cancelled last term because he was ill, and he cancelled one last week because he had childcare issues. Last time he said he'd just give us some money off this term's sessions, and he's said the same this time. But I think this policy is really unfair and I don't actually want to book with him again.

He's pointed me to his terms and conditions when I said I wanted a refund, and to be fair that's what it says, no refund, just a class credit. But this seems really unfair when I didn't want him to cancel, I would have liked to have gone to the class!

AIBU to think he should refund us if he cancels? Both times it's been very last minute as well.

Taking the piss a bit and quite flakey.

I used to go to a class where sometimes the yoga teacher who owned the venue would have someone else take the class. However, the replacement teacher was akin to some sort of army type, really barking and unpleasant at you, saying you couldn’t have water there etc. all things the normal teacher allowed. Me and the other 2 friends going complained and she disappeared.

Would this be a possibility? As Sparky suggests, ask him to let you attend his next term for however many lessons is owed (at least 2 by the sound of things) but not sign up for another term. He won't like this, but I can't see why you wouldn't be entitled to it.

Theoretically, he could be cancelling lessons for illness/ childcare/ doesn't feel like doing a class tonight and just offering credits every term. This would mean that you could (theoretically) end up with an entire term of "free" sessions - that would be stupid! Especially as the odds are that he then wouldn't hold the class.

Classes I have attended operate the credit system by default and a "if this is a problem get in touch and we will discuss a refund" policy which I think is a good balance of reducing the burden of issuing refunds only to have the same money returned a few weeks later but some personal circumstances mean a person wants or needs the money back

"Talk to Trading Standards"

Well I think it depends one a) how regularly the sessions are cancelled b) how much you value the sessions.

If they are doing this as a way to get extra income and/or they are only really just breaking even if they charge for all sessions (because they will still have expenses for venue hire if they have an issue and can't do the session) you run the risk that the instructor will just jack it in completely, leaving you with no sessions at all.

My point here, before you go charging off to Trading Standards, is if you really like and want the sessions and its more annoying than prohibitive to just pay a few £ extra to ensure the viability of the sessions overall then its really going to be cutting your nose off to spite your face. Sometimes its just better to suck it up even though its frustrating.

These type of sessions tend to be low return and quite high effort for the people running them by the time they've covered venue hire and insurance.

Tread carefully and think about what you really want to achieve here.

YANBU I think you should get refunded.

However - people can set any terms and conditions that they want and then you decide if you want to accept them. It might be better to find another class.

This is reasonable.

Check if he is doing this.

He's basically a one man show running a small business, where he has no cover or backup as it is just him. This is a reasonable approach for him to take.

If I was happy with the class I would be happy with this.

No they cannot! T&C need to be within the law and be fair otherwise they cannot be imposed.

I really wish people would stop saying a business can impose any T&C they want - they have to be within the law and fair to the consumer otherwise they cannot be enforced

No. It isn't.

I agree.

Also: It's £12.50 a week so not cheap either

I think this is very reasonable. I am not sure people realise how little self-employed people are left with once all the fixed costs, class preparation and administration time are taken into account. It's not like he just turns up for these classes and then goes home and that's it. Plus he may not be able to book the venue for several consecutive classes, so there may be dead time while he waits for his next slot.

Would. Most people ime keep rebooking courses, so if you got a free class in the next batch that would be fine. Guess if you wanted to quit it would be an issue but I couldn’t lose sleep over £12.

I know it's not the same as running a business but I do the admin for a not for profit sports club and we have basically the same policy, though we are "pay as you go" rather than having to pay up front for a full term. It's the weather that forces us to cancel mostly, though we have occasionally cancelled due to coaches being ill or having last minute work or family commitments.
Our policy is that we move pre booked members onto the next session that they can attend. It's quicker than doing refunds and, if you assume my time costs nothing, then it's free. However the online booking system we use charges us £1 per transaction to make a refund. That may not sound a lot but over a year it would mount up to a significant amount and we try to keep expenditure down so that our fees stay as low as possible.
People don't generally mind as they get what they've paid for in the end and it's in everyone's best interests to minimise the admin costs of the club. We would refund if for some reason a member was unable to use their credit in a reasonable timeframe but it's rare that anyone asks.

Thanks for all the helpful responses.

In response to the above, it is defined dates, they are the same as the school half terms.

So last time (before Christmas), he cancelled the class. I was expecting a refund, so when he didn't mention this I emailed and he said 'it's in my terms and conditions that I don't give refunds, you will get it deducted from the next set when you sign up.' When he released the dates for the Jan start, I emailed him again and he sent me a code for the online booking which reduced the cost by £12.50. So I've had that class credit and it's fine. You can only block book per half term, he doesn't offer PAYG.

The childcare cancellation happened earlier this week, because of this and not just getting a refund straightforwardly I think I don't want to continue. I emailed and said I'd prefer a refund as I'm not sure I want to sign up for the next block. He said he can only give me a session reduction for the next block.

I'll see what he says if I reply that I definitely don't want to sign up, and if he'll just let me attend the first session.

I do yoga to try and chill me out, and this annoyance over him cancelling and not refunding is having the opposite effect but obviously don't want to kick up a fuss if everyone things I'm being unreasonable.

I wouldnt like it - and I would not really want to keep attending a class hosted by someone who thinks this is ok

Well if it's in his T&C YABU. I'd find a new yoga class and tell him why you are leaving. I'm self employed and if I'm sick I refund/don't get paid

I'll see what he says if I reply that I definitely don't want to sign up, and if he'll just let me attend the first session.

That is reasonable. Though if you didn't wish to return at all he should be offering a refund.

If you can, I'd find a new yoga class and teacher. That's an unusual set up anyway. Paying for class credits is normal, but not if they have to be used within a half term (quite a short period of time!) and not if they are completely non transferrable.

In my experience it's normal to either pay by time period (e.g. £60 for a month's class pass) or for a class credit, or PAYG. It's not normal to combine these options into something more restrictive.

The studio I go to refunds or let's you swap to a different class if the teacher cancels x

If he is reasonable, he should refund your session as long as you tell him you don't intend to carry on.

On the other hand, you are making a bit of a fuss over £12.50 if you have decided to look for another class anyway.

It depends how much hassle you want.

I think I'd just walk away and accept I'd lost £12.50 because surely there will be a bit of bad feeling if you attend one class (which you're due) but he knows you won't be coming back.

It’s particularly unfair if the fact he only offers a class credit isn’t clear in his T&Cs and the condition that you have to book a whole block of classes to obtain the class credit owed to you through no fault of your own isn’t stated. I can’t imagine being able to enforce that in my business.

Many people working with term-time classes of any kind, as for a half-term notice if you want to stop.

I can see his business model, which is you can make up the class next term, but only if you book that next term.

That's fair enough if it's YOU who can't attend the class for any reason but it's very much NOT fair if he has cancelled the class.

What he should do is credit the fee for people coming back next term because HE didn't attend. But if you decide not to carry on, he should refund your fee.

Basically, he's wanting his income all ways- whether people attend or not or whether he can take the class or not.

You don't have that many options though do you?

If he 'owes' you £12.50, you can either argue the point with him, or walk away.

He needs to re-think his T&Cs.

I read it as the instructor cancels a class in one term, & offers a reduction in fees for the next term. So in order to get your money back, you have to sign up for another term.

This is correct.

Yes, exactly, as I said, if I couldn't or chose not to attend a class then I'm totally happy that I don't get a refund, as that's on me. I'm just unhappy when I don't get the class and it's not my fault!

It depends on how strongly you feel on this @CalmerChameleons

If you feel very strongly, you could write him an email if that's easier than talking to him before/after your class. If nothing else, it should make him reconsider hos T&Cs.

If you want to leave his class anyway, I'd just swallow the loss of £12.50 and forget it all.

It's not worth fussing over it if you would only attend one class to get your money's worth.