To vaccinate newborn or not

[confusedaboutclothes]

I know this is a very sensitive subject, but i’m asking please for FACTS only - I don’t want answers like ‘because the NHS recommends you to vaccinate your baby etc’

Id like to point out i’m not ‘anti vax’ as such, but covid really opened my eyes to researching vaccines etc i’ve done my own research on whether i should be vaccinating my newborn but it’s hard to find unbiased facts.

What I don’t like, is the pressure that is put on us to do as we’re told with our babies. I don’t like the constant reminders, the phone calls and the pressure to vaccinate - it all feels like a box ticking exercise not because the NHS are actually worried about my baby.

Please be kind, I really am confused about this and would love some different perspectives

Look up the effects of small pox. The effect a of measles. The effects of polio.

then ask yourself if you’re ok if your child contracted any of them. Because the vaccine will stop them.

then ask if you could live with yourself. There are people still living in iron lungs and all sorts!

When my two were little babies, I felt the same way. Spending time online didn't help, and in particular, I'd think mumsnet would be one of the worst places to find advice or guidance. Most people posting here also don't have medical degrees, haven't done much research, and are following general NHS advice. Not necessarily incorrectly.

Yes, vaccines save lives. Across populations, they do slow or stop the spread of serious diseases. But they also come with some very real and quite scary risks. Vaccine injuries are widely reported and it would be very misleading to say that all vaccines are always safe - it's just not true.

I spoke to my health visitor, practice nurse and several GPs, requesting the patient information leaflets for the vaccines (these can also often be found online, but generally aren't freely offered to parents at appointments). The risks are real, as are the benefits.

If I were you, I'd get off the Internet and trust your instincts and genuine sources of information - vaccine safety trials, patient information leaflets etc. Vaccine injury is extremely unlikely, but it is a possibility. You need to weigh up if the pros outweigh the cons. For most, they do.

Also consider that some parents opt to delay vaccines or spread them out, and there is medical support for this too.

I hope this perspective helps. I'm fully aware that I'm opening myself up to criticism on this thread (funny how "Pro vaxxers" are often as dogmatic or more so than so called "anti vaxxers"!) But I don't think you, or any parent, is wrong to question a medical decision for your child, especially when it does carry risks, and I don't want you to feel wrong for asking questions. Asking the questions doesn't make you "anti", even if mumsnet disagrees!

This is just what I would have wanted to hear when I had a small baby.

You know that GP surgeries get paid per vaccine yes?

So they’re biased in the information they give out.

@confusedaboutclothes OP I am glad you came to the conclusion that vaccination is the way to go and sorry you have had some rude responses on here.

just wanted to mention an interesting point. the reason your brain latches on more to the negative articles about vaccines is because our brains have evolved to respond much more and retain negative information. I suppose its a survival instinct we evolved. there have been studies that demonstrate this. this is why my no 1 advice to all patients is - don't Google it. I encourage looking up credible resources such as the NHS website or other specialist resources depending on the circumstance, but just blind googling is dangerous. if feeds fears and misinformation. I sympathise that obviously you use the resources you have at hand, but Dr Google is not to be trusted.

My son, got measles before he was vaccinated. He was soo poorly

Vaccines save lives

I'm sure your "research" Google and fb is far more accurate than decades of work by drs and epidemiologists...

Ffs

I have vaccinated both of mine (reminded me I still need to book boosters!). The only thing that didn't sit well with me is that there are even more jabs these days and at 1 appointment she had 4 jabs, 2 in each leg! I did think this was a bit much in 1 session.
I don't take up the flu vaccinations.

Just this really.

Agree

to say you’ve done readers h is not looking at google

no no no. Proper read watch needs to be published. What papers have you published with regards to your research please?

If you do decide to vaccinate, there is nothing wrong with waiting until your baby is a bit older than their set schedule or if you want to space out dual vaccines for a bit.

unless of course they catch those deseases in the mean time

I remember an epidemiologist during COVID saying the only way to be immune from any illness is to be vaccinated. If your children have childhood vaccinations, do they need boosters through adult life, or does childhood vaccination give lifetime immunity?

I feel like the reason you have the privilege to question vaccines just goes to show how important vaccinating babies is, and how it has done such a good job that you no longer have to worry about the threat.

But as more people dont vaccinate, more babies and children will start getting seriously ill again.

The internet is full of misinformation and propoganda- read legitamate reasearch papers, look at the stats. Childhood vaccines are incredible and have saved so many lives.

Sadly, herd immunity (from parents who did vaccinate their kids) is on the wane.
Those non vaccinating parents can no longer rely on other parents protecting their child/ren.
So more important to vaccinate now than ever
10,000 kids died per year from pertusis (whooping cough) pre vaccination.
My dad had a cousin who died from polio.
It seems to me that people who have never seen/heard of these diseases are very blasé about them.
Anyone who has ever seen a child suffer or die from these diseases will ever forget it.

correlation is not the same as causation. not to mention the sample size of your child and her friends/your friends children is not sufficient to produce any statistically significant results.

Wakefield's research was thoroughly debunked and the original publication withdrawn.

i’m asking please for FACTS only - I don’t want answers like ‘because the NHS recommends you to vaccinate your baby etc’

Ummm where do you think the NHS got their advice to vaccinate from? Out of thin air?
Hint: no, it's from huge numbers of clinical trials and vast amounts of research into the harms of the diseases they are vaccinating against.

Would you vaccinate a puppy if you had one?

Putting aside all the obvious reasons for vaccinating your kids, whenever I have a difficult choice to make, I try and imagine that choice being taken away.

So imagine how you would feel if suddenly all the vaccines ran out. Imagine you get a call from your health visitor to say that due to an unexpected permanent supply problem, there were no baby vaccines available, so no babies could get vaccinated ever again. The Health Visitor tells you that it is now expected that rates of illness such as measles will rise fairly rapidly due to unvaccinated babies, so you must be on the look out for illness, and be prepared for the risk of possible long term significant health damage as a result, or possibly death. She tells you that you might want to avoid baby groups, trips out with friends, because of the infection risk. The risk will be lifelong, and so precautions will need to be taken for ever. Over time, diseases like measles will be common, with a rise in infant mortality becoming accepted.

How would you feel then? If you'd be relieved, and happy to accept the risk and stay away from other people from now on (to protect yourself and them), then don't get your baby vaccinated.

If you'd be worried, then get your baby vaccinated.

@Verbena17 so you were OK to leave your children with the risk of developing cancer because YOU have an issue with vaccines? wonderful

Absolutely do.

Cases of previously well controlled diseases are on the rise in Britain because people are failing to vaccinate as much as they did.

A vaccine success story is small pox which was virtually eradicated through vaccine.

What a lot of people don't understand is that vaccines help our immune system to fight these diseases. They take a dead or weakened dose which our immune system picks up and learns how to fight and eradicate it. Then when it faces the real deal, it can deal with it without it being fatal or serious.

Basically, these jabs are essential for human health. And the autism link was actually proven to be an absolute lie before anyone tries to trot that one out.

Google the symptoms and outcomes of the diseases that the vaccines protect your baby against. That should be enough to convince you

@confusedaboutclothes The doctor who said Vaccines were bad has been discredited and lost his medical lisence. This isn't an "each to their own" argument. This is a "My child could die or give a very ill baby their germs if they get sick" moment

Vaccinate. Your. Child

The way to look at it from the NHS’ perspective is this (in my opinion) no, the NHS doesn’t necessarily ‘care’ about your baby (well, not as much as you do obviously)
But they do care about keeping disease down at a population level. Largely because illness costs the NHS money.
It is the same reason that you can see a GP in advance of going abroad to countries with malaria and they will prescribe you prophylaxis for it as it’s cheaper doing that than treating you for malaria when you get home (sorry if that’s a silly comparison)

So, the NHS will provide, free at the point of delivery, for everyone‘s babies and small children because if they didn’t, the cost of treating things like measles on a huge scale would be far higher and take up much more resource than the vaccine program.

I understand why you might feel apprehensive over your newborn, I didn’t enjoy getting mine vaccinated because they look so tiny and helpless but I really don’t believe the NHS would inject literally millions of babies with anything that would cause them to need further medical treatment in the future, if that makes sense?

@confusedaboutclothes

Many communicable diseases, such as measles, are making a comeback, particularly post covid when mixing of people (and thus immune system exposure), has been limited for a period of time.

We are not hitting vaccine targets unfortunately which is bad for everyone. If you look at references 24-29 (at the bottom) they talk about addressing vaccine hesitancy in parents.
https://stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/prevention-of-ill-health/immunisations/

it is SO HARD when our protective mama hormones kick in and we start panicking about the barrage of information that is shooting our way. it’s all designed to hook us by the heart - we’re such vulnerable information consumers during pregnancy and motherhood!

I am a mother + a biology teacher. Both my parents are doctors. I still panicked a bit.

this is where I got to. The very very miniscule risk of your child having a negative vaccine reaction is much much smaller than the potential consequences of them being infected by an avoidable disease. Statistically you are doing the right thing for your own baby and for wider society by having them vaccinated.

it feels hard because choosing to vaccinate seems like an active choice with potential consequences, however unlikely vs not vaccinating them seems like opting out of that risk.

but choosing not to is an active choice too. Ultimately it is your choice. But if you were to make an entirely dispassionate / robotic / data driven choice about the best way to reduce the risks of harm to your baby. There is no question that choosing to vaccinate is the way to do that.