To vaccinate newborn or not

[confusedaboutclothes]

I know this is a very sensitive subject, but i’m asking please for FACTS only - I don’t want answers like ‘because the NHS recommends you to vaccinate your baby etc’

Id like to point out i’m not ‘anti vax’ as such, but covid really opened my eyes to researching vaccines etc i’ve done my own research on whether i should be vaccinating my newborn but it’s hard to find unbiased facts.

What I don’t like, is the pressure that is put on us to do as we’re told with our babies. I don’t like the constant reminders, the phone calls and the pressure to vaccinate - it all feels like a box ticking exercise not because the NHS are actually worried about my baby.

Please be kind, I really am confused about this and would love some different perspectives

Totally up to you if you are comfortable with knowing the baby is more likely to die without them.

Presume you won't be taking antibiotics if you end up with post partum infections or sepsis either or is it just baby you're willing to risk?

Please get your baby vaccinated. There’s a reason why diseases like polio dramatically fell in cases when vaccines were introduced.

Childhood illnesses are on the rise after covid with people ‘properly’ mixing again - it’s more important than ever to protect your vulnerable baby. Please don’t equate COVID vaccines to these- they are not the same.

Go to university, get a Biology degree, start working in a lab, do an MSc and a PhD and then carry on working in a lab.
Or speak to qualified medical professionals.
Those are both ways of getting at medical research.
Randomly Googling is not a way of getting at medical research.

For heaven's sake are people actually this stupid?
Vaccines save lives. Just check out what happens to unvaccinated children in third world countries then imagine your precious baby in that situation.
Why should we 'be kind' when faced with such crap.

But 'the NHS recommends you to vaccinate your baby etc' because the JCVI evaluates the 'facts' as far as it is possible to predict the outcome of vaccines in individuals and the populations, in order to reach the most evidence-based conclusion and develop guidelines around it.

Why do you think anybody else on here's FACTS are worth more than that?

Vaccines saves lives in other ways than just death.

Measles doesn't just kill. It can also cause brain damage, blindness, seizures.

Mumps can cause encephalitis (Which kills), meningitis, Pancreatitis, swollen testies and ovaries (My husbands recently had mumps because he wasn't fully vaccinated)

Meningitis which also kills, in some causes can cause limp problem so bad that limbs have to be amputated.

Vaccines can cause symptoms yes and in rare occasions reactions. But these reactions are less likely to happen than a woman getting pregnant on the pill or IUD.

But to me you've already made your mind up that your probably not going to vaccinate your child.

Hi OP

i think it is perfectly fine to ask the question, why we wouldn’t we check something we are going to put our children through?

I hope the reflective posts on here are useful to you. I will be honest both of my children were vaccinated when needed and I am grateful -and as someone who’s then 4 month old caught chicken pox from his slightly older sister can reflect on the effect of childhood diseases on infants .
These days the uk is going to vaccinate against chicken pox, and although he wouldn’t have been vaccinated at the time he caught it, his sister would have, and she wouldn’t have passed it on to him, and that is the other thing about vaccination is it protects those too young or vulnerable to be vaccinated by keeping the disease out of circulation, so vaccinating this baby will help protect future babies ( yours or otherwise) that dc1 will come into contact with

Another argument to vaccinate that resonates with me is that as great as modern medicine is we don’t have cures for many of the complications that may result from infection (for example, deafness and measles ) - so vaccination is our best shot at keeping our child healthy.

Finally, I do agree that the health system is set up to get as many people vaccinated at the right time as possible tick, and feels a bit brusque - but this is the current reality of our health service trying to provide a fundamental aspect of health and care, so I do understand why you are seeking support elsewhere and are supportive that you have done so

It’s disingenuous to do some very limited googling around such a contentious subject and then start a post on MN asking whether you should vaccinate your child. If everyone had said “no, absolutely not” would you have gone back to your GP and HV and told them you’ve decided not to vaccinate? Would you have ignored the wealth of peer-reviewed research on childhood vaccinations? Give your head a wobble please.

As others have pointed out = if you live in a low immigrant/high vaccination area your children will be unlike to get certain illnesses & diseases regardless of wether you vaccinate

If your hanging around other anti-vaccers in a high turn over area your baby may suffer

my vaccination pushing cheque must be getting lost in the post. bloody royal mail!

have fun with your conspiracy theories love

The same scientific community pushing vaccines started out as saying the Covid vaccines stopped illness and transmission, then this was diluted to the pitch - that if you take the vaccine you're less likely to get seriously ill.
This would be because as we got more data we knew more. Would you rather nobody admitted when the conclusions changed?

I have to admit I haven’t read the full thread but this is like saying ‘I don’t wear a seatbelt and I haven’t been killed in a car accident’.

The Covid vaccine really does need to be separated from all standard vaccines. It wasn’t developed the way we usually develop any sort of drug/vaccine/treatment. It was rushed, out of necessity, and didn’t go through as many trials as normal. And also, the entire population was vaccinated all at pretty much the same time. When you have a 1% side effect rate, and vaccinate 60 million people, you get a lot of people with side effects. If you have a 1% side effect but are only vaccinating the babies born that year, you don’t see as many. It looks worse when you do a full population in one go.

However, these vaccine regimens have been in use for decades and they are absolutely safe. They also save lives. You’re not scared of the alternative because you live in a country with high enough vaccine rates that you don’t see children dieing in the hundreds because of measles, but you will start seeing that if the anti-vax trend continues. Your child will not be harmed by the vaccines, they just won’t be. They could die without it, and given the pockets of anti-vaxers causing outbreaks of measles etc, they actually very much do have a chance of catching it and dying. That’s your choice. Have a safe vaccines with decades of safe use or leave your child open to the very real, very tangible effects of these diseases, including death.

OK.

So questions - Why insist on so many different injections in one single visit? Surely much much safer to give a vaccine for one thing, let the baby's body deal with it and then go back for the next one when they're well again?

If the baby is seriously ill, and you've whacked in 6 different vaccines at the same time, how on earth is the Dr in the hospital supposed to know which vaccine has caused the problem?

Why such an insistence on vaccinating against measles but no one seem to give a shit about chickenpox? Looking into both diseases, both can be equally fatal. One of my children was very seriously ill with chickenpox, admitted to hospital. Yet I had measles as a child and breezed through it. I remember having chickenpox a year later and also being very seriously ill. So clearly my 'genes' and those of my son's do not agree with chickenpox.

Why do we stigmatise measles and not chickenpox? Both can be a 'normal' childhood disease - both can be deadly, depending how your individual body reacts to it. Why is the same parent who is deemed negligent for not having the MMR not being told the same for not getting a chickenpox vaccine?

MMR - why oh why do they not still offer single vaccines? A lot of people who currently do not have the MMR would have single vaccines. I definitely would have vaccinated my two earlier if single was available. As it is, I've waited until their bodies were big enough and strong enough in my mind. Both were still poorly after their MMR and neither wants to go back for the booster (they will but you get my point, they're not 'nice' vaccines and do make you sick)

Why keep telling people vaccines are the only way to prevent serious illness? They're not 100% efffective. I saw this myself when my child , vaccinated, got taken into hospital with whooping cough. Seriously ill. Doctor iniitally refused to believe it was whooping cough as he was vaccinated and then had to admit he was wrong. The vaccine simply hadn't worked for him. Please don't tell me it would have been much much worse without as that's just rubbish! He had the disease , a disease he shouldn't have been able to get according to the the information vaccinators give out.

Why do we not acknowledge at all the huge numbers of people, adults and children who are permanently damaged by vaccines? They do exist. Yes, your chances of being seriously affected or killed are higher by the disease itself, but let's not pretend they're 100% safe. They're not. I've read some heartbreaking accounts of babies who have died days after their MMR. True stories. Unbelievably heartbreaking true stories. I can guarantee those parents 100% regret getting the vaccine.

There's always two sides.

But on MN we only ever seem to push the one side.

I was very very grateful that I had a Nurse at my Dr's surgery, and a GP, who were both very open to the idea of spaced out vaccines. GP actually said it was very sensible of me.

But listening to you, it's just get them vaccinated, as many as possible, as quickly as possible.

Are you 100% sure that a vaccine you've given hasn't severely affected a child?

Your baby, your decision. But try Googling pictures of measles infections before you decide. It can be a serious, debilitating illness the outcomes of which can be blindness, mental impairment or death.

I would like to see long term studies showing general health of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated.

The first people to have diphtheria and polio vaccines are now past retirement age. How long term do you want?

I was in the first cohort to be given the polio vaccine when it was first rolled out. I had it at school, younger siblings had it at the baby clinic.

I knew two people, only slightly older than me, who had polio before the vaccine was available. They were left with permanent disabilities.

I echo this. Measles cases are rising because of parents who not vaccinating their children. Your child is more susceptible if they are not vaccinated. Why would you risk that?

https://www.england.nhs.uk/london/2023/09/07/more-than-32000-children-across-london-at-risk-of-catching-measles-as-new-school-term-gets-underway/

Hi OP. The amount of misinformation in the media can be confusing. Molecular biology bachelor here with a PhD from Oxbridge, working in the same institute where the COVID vaccine was developed and even took part in clinical trials for other vaccines myself. I was also a COVID expert between 2021-2023. Hope my background reassures you.

We could discuss the benefit-risk analysis of vaccines considering the PP who mentioned her COVID vaccine-induced injury. Some side effects or injuries can happen as a result of vaccination; however, they are extremely rare. If you compare, for example, rates of COVID vaccine-induced heart inflammation in vaccinated people, it was still lower than the number of heart inflammation as a result of having COVID infection in people who were not vaccinated (one example here for those interested: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38046477/). This is the case for most side effects - that’s why we call it a benefit-risk analysis. It means the benefit is far greater than the risk. So all in all, the publication I mention - while not denying that there might be some side effect to COVID vaccine - still points to this particular vaccine being very safe and beneficial. With newborn vaccines, which have been around for a long time, there is ample evidence that they do save lives and are safe. This means, yes, the risk will always be there, but it’s a much smaller risk than not vaccinating your baby and them becoming ill with potentially fatal consequences. It’s OK to question things, and it is a fact that pharmaceutical companies make money selling products such as vaccines and drugs (it is a business after all). Still, vaccines are definitely not something we are needlessly "upsold" by big pharma - they truly do save lives.

Being kind - yes, as a parent you should do what you can to protect your baby from an entirely foreseeable and painful death/disability causing illness.

On the one hand, you have a huge body of medical research, testing and studies. On the other, you have a few websites, insta accounts and wannabe celebrities saying it's all a big conspiracy.

I can't help but be angry with people who see this as a both-sides, let weigh it up issue. They're not only risking their own children's lives, but the lives of other children who have medical issues that mean they can't be vaccinated and rely on other kids being vaccinated.

I can only give you my perspective .
As someone with a child that is vaccine damaged , I can completely understand your doubts . Oldest was vaccine damaged when he had his mmr quite a few years ago . In insight the signs where there , she reacted very badly to the 8 week vaccines and then again to the second boost . In that time vaccines used to be 3 in one ? I think they are even worse now and they actually have 8 vaccines in one go and then again another 8 weeks after so based on that , her younger siblings are vaccine free . Even the vitamin k , the oldest of the siblings is 8 and youngest 2 .
We travel a lot , including 3 rd world countries . Until now , I can honestly say their health is amazing . None had antibiotics , none had any procedures and apart from colds and chicken pox no illnesses .
I’m by no means anti vaxx , you won’t find me telling anyone to not vaccinate . But I will say to people as you that have doubts , that you owe it to yourself to be 100% , vaccines can be delayed if you are unsure , side effects for those affected seem to be considerably smaller if vaccines are given at 6 months as a example .
I absolutely hate multiple vaccines , as a example children get hepatite B vaccines at 8 weeks , Hep b can only be transmitted by sex or sharing needles so in developed countries makes literally nil sense to have it . Why people don’t question this , I don’t know . I think we are on autopilot when we have our kids , we trust NHS implicitly. Once there is a issue we tend to research a lot more . I also have the benefit ( or not at times ) of having dealt with clinical negligence and vaccine injury issues so I think I analise a lot more and have realised over the what the NHS and medical professionals make a huge amount of life changing mistakes .
Just do your research , if unsure wait , you live in a country with good sanitation , access to health care and good food . Your baby won’t contract all this illnesses the moment you delay a vaccine . Just be a peace with yourself no matter what you choose . That all we can do as parents .

They get paid per patient they see with cancer. Do you think they're encouraging their patients to get cancer? They get paid per smear test they do. They get paid health check they give. They get paid for every. single. thing they do. So of course they get paid per patient for vaccinations. How else would the GP's / nurses / admin staff etc etc be paid? You think they work for nothing?

It’s different. They get paid a incentive not to give the vaccine so your comparison makes nil sense .verbena is right they get bit incentives , I don’t think people realise this .

I spent well over a year researching the HPV vaccine as did many others.
With my family, we made that choice.
Im not having a go at you because you chose to give them….something quite common with pro-vaccine people you tend to find is that they’re extremely volatile towards people who choose not to. 🤔. Vaccines in the UK are not mandatory so people can choose either way.

You haven't done peer reviewed research, you've googled.

My view is that I either trust the medical consensus and doctors opinion, in which case I trust the anticibiotocs they prescribe or I dont. If I trust them, be that a first ir second opinion, then I trust their advice on vaccination.

If you vaccinate, what is the worst that can happen?
If you dont vaccinate, what is the worst that can happen?

Which is more likely? That's your decision.