Sacked for using 'N' word

[Horrace]

I don't know how to copy link sorry but has anyone been following the story of the Lloyd's bank manager who was sacked for asking a relevant question in a so called anti racism training session by his employers but in his question he used the full 'N' word.
His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word.
The trainer was so offended by the word, she had to take 5 days off work. However, he got sacked.
He has since been awarded £500,00 but no apology from Lloyd's and no job back.
As far as we know, the ridiculous incompetent trainer is still employed.

I am close to this story but afraid to say how.
But will say that I'm losing sleep and furious more and more at this bank.

Yes, part two, discrimination, has uncapped potential awards. They would have taken into account his likelihood of getting another job plus injury to feelings (on the Vento scale).

I would say the judgment seems entirely reasonable. But not because he's a white middle aged man. Because in applying the sanction they did not take account of his disability.

I agree with this so much, it's really not necessary to say the whole word and anyone who doesn't think this is very odd (and ignorant)

The full answer to your question is long, convoluted and full of nuance which is guaranteed to offend all sorts of people in 2024. The short answer, from which the differences could be said to stem, is: "The UK never had legally enforced apartheid."

You’re ’losing sleep’ over someone being reprimanded for using the N word?

OK. I think I’ve got the measure of you, then.

When I read this new story I immediately thought of when I used the word (several times) in a English lit seminar at uni discussing Huckleberry Finn (I think), in which it's used extensively. I found it curious that the American girl in the group kept saying n-word when we all knew what it was, had just read it in print dozens of times and, to me, it was just an arbitrary combination of letters. I knew it was very offensive and would never ever come close to using it in day to day life, but I had no idea people would consider repeating something we'd read so offensive. I'd grown up in a monocultural bubble and genuinely had no idea. It really scares me that if someone had taken offense it could have led to me being thrown off the course or something. At Lloyds, it clearly wasn't a safe place for the trainees if this man wasn't just gently correctly, especially as he was discussing use of the word.

Regarding professionalism and the previous comments on starring letters out, I'm a teacher now and if a kid swears and I recount it to the head or whoever, I use the whole word, I certainly don't censor it. We're all adults and I quite honestly can't understand how a group of letters can offend - it's the meaning behind them when they are directed at you that is potentially offensive, not hearing the actual sound. We're all grown ups and can cope with hearing a swear word. I would write/say n-word though because I've been taught that is the only acceptable way.

This

But I bet I’m bang on the money.

My DS listens to a lot of rap music and the N word is used very frequently and I was a bit surprised. I've made it clear to him that he can't use that word but why oh why is it used to much to music artists? Are they exempt from using those type of words?
As to the OP - maybe we're not getting the full story? If he was really in the clear then he should have got his job back surely? You say his colleagues backed him up. I don't understand.

5 days off work? Thats absolutely ridiculous.

This is what the judgement says re: his dyslexia

"We have however upheld one of the disability discrimination claims. The claimant has dyslexia and this can lead him to keep reformulating questions and to ‘spurt’ things out before he loses his train of thought, so that he is concentrating more on the complex thought in his head than how he actually formulates the question and on the surrounding social cues. The evidence led us to believe, on the balance of probabilities, that the claimant’s dyslexia was a strong factor causing how he expressed himself at the session, and in his use of the full word rather than finding a means to avoid it."

I was merely explaining how dyslexia can mean people use words they don't intend to. There is a very misguided view that dyslexia just means people can't spell, but it is far wider reaching than that.

Luckily the tribunal understood that and you weren't on the panel.

His question I believe was how would he be expected to deal with black employees or customers speaking to each other using that word

My guess is that the manner and tone in which he asked the question means the question was nothing like as innocent as you suggest.

This is the most bizarre part, this was someone who's job it was to train in the handling of such things as racism, yet it turned out they couldn't handle it, time for some training!

Personally I don't think i've ever used the word in question, and can't see why I would, but I confess to finding it odd that anyone would allow themselves to get quite so exercised and wound up about an offensive word, respond sure, call out the person using it, but don't allow yourself to get controlled by individual words in isolation - words are just that, combinations of letters, it's the overall way in which they are used, by who and with what intent that matters.

How the fuck does an anti racism trainer not fucking know the fucking n word???

Lots of comments here saying he should have referred to the n-word, not used it. If you read the articles, he did ask the question intelligently and sensitively - he only gave the example using it in full when the DEI trainer couldn’t understand the question.

I have read about it. He asked how he should handle a situation where he had heard someone from an ethnic minority use a word that might be considered offensive if used by someone not in that minority.
He gave the example of rap music, saying to the trainer: “The most common example being use of the N-word in the black community”. However, he used the full word rather than the abbreviation, the tribunal heard.

He was vague in the first part saying ‘offensive word’. Of course the trainer wanted to know what the word was. He went straight to using the full word in his example. In his example he should have said ‘the N word’ not the full word. He was wrong.

Well the losing sleep is an accumulation of working for this bank and their behaviour.
Could be treating customers betters.
And the constant stream of bonkers nonsense going on with virtue signaling

We don't know if he requested it, it has to be on the original claim form.

But what does that mean? How is it not obvious? White ppl using it, not ok. Black ppl using it? Contextual but Ok. Anyone using it as an insult, not ok. There was no need to ask that question, he is old enough to know better. The fact he asked it at all suggests he was shit stirring thinking he'd get away with it.

He sounds like a Laurence Fox type with an agenda, his question was not innocent or genuine, he was being a race-baiting if not downright racist troll. I’m disgusted he got any money and totally disgusted there are people on this thread acting as if the trainer was the problem. FFS. She has to deal with living in a world in which twats like this get a half a million payout. Never mind five days off, I’d have been tempted to quit altogether, except that the work she does is important and his grotesque behaviour only emphasises that it is.

^ this.

@Horrace virtue signalling? Trying to improve your workplace by making it a better, easier, safer place to be for employees from lots of different backgrounds is a really important thing to do. It’s not virtue signalling.

If you don’t agree with the way that Lloyds (and other workplaces) are trying to improve things for their employees, what would you suggest they do instead?

He was vague in the first part saying ‘offensive word’. Of course the trainer wanted to know what the word was. He went straight to using the full word in his example. In his example he should have said ‘the N word’ not the full word. He was wrong.

Yes, he should have. But not everyone knows that, especially if they’ve been specifically asked which word they mean. Surely the entire fucking purpose of a diversity awareness training course is to train / teach people? So the only sensible response would be for the trainer to say “ah, thank-you Carl for clarifying which word you meant; however, many black people consider it offensive for non-black people to use the full word, so it’s acceptable to refer to it by saying “the n word” instead.” What’s the point in these training courses if nobody can actually make a mistake and be corrected for it, learning something about why they were corrected in the process?