Infidelity and forgiveness

[ffs2024]

How does one do this? In a nutshell, DH had a ONS last year. With a man. I have since discovered he was on various websites and signed up to them. Secret affairs and grinder to name a few. Reddit was a particular issue as he quickly started to access more explicit material and talking to other redditors. The topics were extreme and even now gross me out.

He acknowledged his behaviour but seems to get angry that I'm still impacted by this. He is otherwise a loving person and is extremely supportive.

Current issue is he wants closeness but I can't stop thinking about what he did. The betrayal and frankly some of it being awful in terms of his likes. When we discuss it, we end at a stalemate because he can't deal with the fact that I ‘hate’ (his word) some of his likes. I can't deny that it does make me feel sick thinking about this part of him and I don't like it.

How does one move on from this? I don't want to leave him. Im especially interested to hear from others who have experienced something similar.

"I find myself fawning over him. I've spent a lifetime being the one to make amends to make life easier, to appease the people, mostly men, around me. We talk and he soon enters this sulking phase and it doesn't take long for me to give in to it. Howevera lot of what has been said here has helped me reframe a lot of my thoughts so at least the next time we talk about it I make it clear that the ‘hate’ he feels is not because of his swxuality but because he cheated. He lied and planned all of it."

This is exactly how I felt. My marriage ended for something alarmingly similar to your OP, except he didn't have "full" sex with a man, just oral. He also didn't have hugely alarming kinks but once I knew he had cheated, I did some investigating and found quite quickly that he was on Reddit trying to meet people and he was on websites aimed specifically at men meeting men. He also grew up in a household that would not accept his sexuality and hated himself for having those feelings.

I knew he was bisexual when we got together but I'd never had a worry about it - he'd never expressed serious thoughts on actually being with a man and to my knowledge never had been in his whole life. So when I found out, it was a real shock. I found out by accident, 2 years after it happened. He was never going to tell me. He was going to let me live the rest of my life with him without knowing this secret.

I felt the same as you - not angry/heartbroken because he was with a man, but because he cheated at all. If anything, I almost felt sorry for him for feeling like he had to hide his true self his whole life. But that doesn't excuse what he did to me. When we got together then got married, we were in a completely monogamous marriage. There was never a discussion about exploration or even temptations of experiencing these things.

We split up about a year after I found out because I just couldn't find it in me to forgive him. He'd completely ruined me/us by that point. He expected me to move on because he said sorry and cried, he said he felt suicidal. I didn't want to be around him anymore. Hugging, kissing all off the table. Even sex was a no. I couldn't bear even being in the bed with him. We would never recover from it so I had to end it. It's been 3 years this year.

I'm sorry this has happened to you.

💐

@Inthebitterend 💐

You are not obliged to facilitate his life because of his autism.

He doesn’t get to say, I’m pansexual and autistic, get over with it.

@ffs2024 sorry if I’ve missed it, but did you find out about his ONS or did he confess to it?

The thing is, he didn’t just randomly trip up and end up sticking his knob into the person he cheated with did he? It took going onto an app, going through the profiles, looking at the photos, chatting to someone, flirting online, planning to meet up and then actually going through with meeting then shagging this man. It’s several stages of betrayal which is disgusting. You would be perfectly justified in ending your marriage just for him going onto a dating app, let alone the rest of it.

He’s a scummy, selfish bastard whatever his sexuality is. My advice is to divorce him rather than prolong the agony he is putting you through.

I just sensed something was up. I checked where he was on find my phone and realised he wasn't at the gym like he said he was. I then drove to the location. I rang. Nothing. Text. Then confirmed it. I will never forget the feeling of my heart dropping when I saw his motorcycle. All the way home I doubted myself, thinking he just met a friend for a coffee, but his body language said it all. I then checked his phone, found all sorts. Last night found some more stuff from other sites he was on at that time. Also noted a tinder activation code in his text messages from Wednesday. This morning he sensed something wrong, so I asked him, he denied it. I said I saw the messages he'd written. He either forgot or lied, I fear the latter. He got sulky and was clearly angry because I essentially snooped, although what started as briefly using his phone as my phone died, the first page I saw was from Reddit with sexually explicit material that he's following.

He either forgot or lied, I fear the latter. He got sulky and was clearly angry

My love, this is your reality right now. If you saw that he was active on Tinder on Wednesday, then that is what happened. I think that if he isn't immediately contrite, then you are totally wasting your breath trying to discuss this any further, because he didn't forget, he lied.

Try to move the focus from how he's behaving round to what you want to happen next.

Also, This morning he sensed something wrong

He wouldn't need to be Columbo to realise that something is catastrophically wrong.

Don't let him pretend there's nothing to see here and go along with it to keep the peace, honestly this is making me so desperately sad for you, yes it is horrendous, yes it is happening and yes you have every right to take the steps you feel are reasonable in response. You don't need his permission or for him to agree. It's a massive mess and it's of his making.

I agree with all the other posters saying this isn't about who he is, his sexuality or his sexual preferences. It is about

1. He made committments and promises to you to be faithful and to be monogamous. He has broken those, cheated and lied. It doesn't matter whith whom. He slept with someone else after promising to be yours.
2. The deceipt. He is really gaslighting you to tell you that this is your problem because you are not accepting of him, but he is STILL going on sex/hook up sites! So he has no intention of actually stopping this behaviour. Constantly rewriting history.

It really strikes me form reading your posts that you think you have to put up with it. Find your anger. He has crapped all over you and your family. He has broken up the kids' home. He has lied and cheated and then denied it. There is no remorse, no sense of trying to save or rebuild, so attempt to reconcile, he is just saying - take me as I am or .... what? He will leave? No, he wants you to leave so that he can be the abandoned spouse.
Start telling your friends and family that he is pansexual and on mutiple dating sites and that he chetaed on you. You do not owe him anything. Get your side of the story out first.
Contact a lawyer.
I am so sorry that you are going through this. what a nightmare.

Honestly OP for me this isn’t really about his likes, kinks, interests etc.

It’s one thing to have interests and kinks and want to LOOK at those things, for example watching porn. For me it’s another thing entirely to be engaging with that content on an individual level like reddit forums, downloading apps like Grinder to physically speak to people and build those relationships albeit online only, and then to physically go and have a one night stand with someone. Irrespective of the kinks/specific interests, the lies and infidelity alone would be enough for me to leave over this.

The problem at least for me is that. If my husband was on dating sites engaging with other people as well as physically having sex with another person then that would be the end for me, regardless of whether it was Tinder and a woman he had sex with, or Grinder and a man. The gender/sexuality stuff I think is a bit of smoke and mirrors for the bigger issue.

Whoa whoa whoa this happened TODAY and he wants you to forgive him?!?!

Darling, get ANGRY. Don't speak to him if you don't want to. I think honestly he needs to leave the marital home for a few days to give you breathing space.

Unlike some others the bi/pan stuff wouldn't bother me and honestly I think is a red herring*. He clearly feels a lot of self hatred about this he is projecting on to you and using to excuse his poor behaviour.

You need to separate whatever you feel about this from the infidelity, deceit and betrayal. WHICH IS ENORMOUS.

Also, you talk about him providing in other areas...him providing money absolutely does not give him carte blanche to cheat. FFS he's being nasty if he's even suggesting this.

You do need to talk to others about this. I recommend couples counselling urgently. Your husband is absolutely not seeing anything from your point of view. He has behaved appallingly.

*the exception is your sexual health. Please make an appointment at a GUM clinic ASAP. You will be seen without judgement. You can't trust this is recent - he's been comfortable lying about this - you can't trust him. Women with bi partners are at the greatest risk for STDs.

In all this be kind to yourself. I'd kick him out for now if I were you to give yourself time to get your head straight. With the expectation of no more cheating in the interim.

He has to win you back now.

This may sound strange but I hadn't been able to distinguish between his sexuality and the infidelity. His negativity towards me because of his actions has made me feel guilty because it was as though I was being negative about his sexuality. My rightful negatively is about his infidelity. I really hadn't distinguished these two before.

To be clear the ons was last year, October I think. Me seeing more of the Reddit stuff and other online stuff was today.

good that sounds like progress.

But it is him who is making you feel that. That is what I meant by he is gaslighting you. He is making it all about your lack of acceptance of who he is.

It isn't. It is about deceipt, lies and cheating.

Separate the two things.
And hs is STILL looking for people to cheat with, so he hasn't changed a bit.

@ffs2024 you are perfectly entitled to be negative about his sexuality too as well as the infidelity if you so wish if you are married to him and it wasn't agreed he could be openly bi from the outset and have other sexual liaisons with men. . Please don't get caught up with the 'I have to be cool about it' - it's not some random friend out there - it's someone you are in a sexual relationship/marriage with and are perfectly entitled to not be cool about it

In the kindest possible way, because you have all of my sympathy, you need to start being realistic.

There's a lot of flowery stuff around trying to understand him etc, but it's really not a complicated situation. Your husband is not straight, he wants sex with men and has sought this out at least once (although it's vanishingly unlikely you caught him the first and only time - what a coincidence that would be), he has a fetish for sex with transwomen, he is still entrenched in an online community that fuels his fetish and desire for extramarital sex with men. In addition, he wants not only for you to "forgive" him (read: shut up and put up) but for you to validate his kinks by "accepting" them, whatever that means in practice. Oh, and he's now trying to get you involved in another seedy fantasy where you also sleep with other men. Given his track record, that will not stay a fantasy for long and he'll soon be pressuring you to actually do it.

OP, what are you doing? This can't be the family life you want for your kids. You do not need a man like this to be happy. Quite the opposite.

This is only going to escalate. His desire for more and more extreme stimulation is going to increase. His desire to push boundaries - his own and yours - is going to increase. No amount of couples counselling can fix this.

I strongly suspect your own abusive background is contributing massively to your inability to evaluate the relationship with honesty, and also the fact that you don't feel you're worth so much more than this awful, seedy, dishonest, bullying, sleazy, sexually incontinent man.

Ring us at womens aid for support. Hes gaslighting you for starters.

This really stumped me. I'm actually sat here in shock. In your experience how do you see this because from the replies on here I have blinkers on.

Sorry I got confused reading all the messages.

"Last night found some more stuff from other sites he was on at that time. Also noted a tinder activation code in his text messages from Wednesday. "

He's looking to cheat. Kick him out. You need to get some space and he needs to understand this is not ok!

He is trying to make this your issue, not his, which is deplorable and rubs salt in the wound which would be substantial enough without him trying to mindbend you so you feel guilty for his infidelity and lies.

I would agree with another poster who says he should leave and give you some breathing space in which to work out which way is up and fully appreciate the situation based on the facts at hand rather than the self serving spin he would like to put on it.

What a very fortunate fellow. You are financially, physically, mentally and emotionally oh and socially stuck and he not only has zero repercussions/responsibilities following this behaviour he gets a fucking free pass to do as he pleases.
maybe beastiality is next? If it’s sexual practices that endanger your life will you leave then? You really have no red line do you?

Personally, I would be a lot more worried about the fact that your husband cheats on you using hook-up sites than about the specific sex/gender of the people he cheats on you with. Ultimately, he went out of his way to seek out risky sex with other people. That's what would bother me, not the person he chose to cheat with. But that's just my personal feeling.

If you, however, feel that his sexuality (ie being pansexual) is the bigger deal, then even if you forgive him for cheating, I don't think you can expect to have a healthy relationship with him. It isn't fair (on either of you) to stay together if you think his sexuality is abhorrent/offensive/wrong. It would beyond dysfunctional on both sides. You would both be miserable and end up hating each other (if you don't already).

I don't want to leave him

Don't, then. But if you choose to stay with him, clearly you can't expect him to somehow change his sexuality so that he's only turned on by people of a sex/gender/appearance that you personally find acceptable. Regardless of what you think of trans people, you can't just somehow stop your husband finding them sexually attractive.

Setting his sexuality aside - you also cannot somehow go back in time to before he cheated on you. This will never unhappen. So if you can't forgive it, you need to accept that your marriage is over. Personally, I wouldn't forgive someone who cheated on me, especially with someone he actively sought out on a hook-up site - but I also wouldn't continue the relationship.

The only options here are:

a) stay with him, and somehow accept and be at peace with his sexuality and/or the fact that he cheated on you
b) stay with him, and continue to massively resent and be disgusted by him, in the knowledge that this makes you both angry and unhappy
c) leave him

Personally, I don't think options and A and B sound very feasible. But it's up to you.

He's still technically cheating by continuing to engage on these sites and is on tinder still. He's definitely gaslighting you by getting angry that you 'hate his sexuality ' and using your feelings against you that you should just suck it up and accept it. What he's really doing is avoiding responsibility for his actions and pinning it on you. He's not changed his behaviour, addressed his fault or tried to fix your marriage as he's still on the sites, he's not being upfront that he's looking at this as if he was and you were ok with it that'd be different. I'm glad you're separating his sexuality and his infidelity as they aren't connected, he still cheated and if it was a woman you'd still be justified in how you feel.

His negativity towards me because of his actions has made me feel guilty because it was as though I was being negative about his sexuality.

That's how he wants you to feel. He's hoping you'll feel so guilty that you will tolerate him doing whatever he likes with whomever he likes. Frankly, you would be crazy to continue with this marriage. He shows no remorse and is basically blaming you for his behaviour.