To wonder what has happened to my Son's school

[k2493]

Just posting for thoughts

Both my kids have gone through the same secondary school. When my daughter started, the school was lovely and new with around 750 kids.

Fast forward to 2024 and there is now 1500 kids and it's become like a dictatorship.

Due to the number of kids, the school has put lines either side of the hallway that they have to walk within otherwise they get detention.

Every hallway is a one way system.

The minute they arrive in school, they have to remove their coats or it's detention even with no heating in the middle of winter. The other day my son arrived back to school to find that there were long queues outside while they did two uniform checks at the door. By the time he got in, he was frozen. Immediately he got shouted at for still having his coat on even though he had just stepped in from the cold.

He then went around the corner and got shouted at again even though he tried to explain it's really difficult to be expected to stay warm, keep moving and remove your coat all at the same time. Nope. Threaten with detention again.

AIBU to wonder what has happened to our education system? I'm lucky in that my son is quite strong minded and just brushes it off but what about the kids who's mental health this is impacting? Surely we want our kids to remember school as being enjoyable for their education and friendships rather than for being shouted at every two minutes for not walking between lines or not taking their coats off the minute they arrive in school?

My DD is in Yr 11 in a relatively strict school - shirts tucked in, no coats in lessons, no phones out during the school day. She has not had one detention in her entire time at school. Most kids don't. It's not that hard to follow some basic ground rules and yet you'd think by some of the comments on here that there was some huge human rights infringement. We all have to adhere to rules at some points in our lives and it's no bad thing.

I'm sure you don't speak for all schools. Some do come down hard on Y7s.

To be fair the methods we are discussing have come from the US and I've seen videos of them being used in Primary schools there. So while your local schools sound great it's obviously not like that everywhere. Equally these schools haven't taken over everywhere in the UK either. There are still some really great schools.

Wow - 6000! Back in the day when I was at school we had cloakrooms and everyone had a peg and desks with open top lids in Y7-9 then lockers in Y10&11 and sixth form. We also had P.E lockers too. I looked round my old school when we were looking for a secondary school for DD and they don't have cloakrooms, desks or lockers anymore.

It absolutely is not good for neurodiverse DC. My DD's school has no disruption in her classes and it really is good for ND kids because they don't put them under the stress of these extreme regimes.

I have to say I agree. I'd never want to send my DC to school somewhere you have to buy them a bag that doubles as a bullet proof vest 😥 Happy to have my 11yo in a lovely secondary school and my 16yo at a good college and I know they're safe! But, I digress.

I've been singing the praises of my DD's nurturing secondary too. I had to fight hard to get her a place, though.

My dd doesn’t get on well with it.
it completely crushed her to the point of depression and anxiety. She’s a really good kid who obsessively follows rules, she finds the zero tolerance panic inducing and won’t explain things for fear of being seen as being rude.
one size doesn’t fit all, whilst zero tolerance works for a some, some don’t care and some are utterly destroyed.

the school won’t recognise that it doesn’t work for the quiet, thoughtful ones. They just sit quietly worried about getting it wrong.

Well, it's relevant to the discussion we're having, isn't it?

What I'm refering to is specifically bad behaviour at school. A group of girls all really well behaved in Y6. 3 go to a nurturing school, 3 go to the non-nurturing school. The 3 at the nurturing school settle in well and continue to be well behaved. The other 3 don't settle, are unhappy at school and crying at home. They get more and more disillusioned as the weeks go by and after a while bad behaviour starts creeping in. I'm not even talking massive things. But for example taking selfies at school when phones should be switched off in their bags.

Well, the fact so many teachers have come on to say how terrible the behaviour is at their school despite using these measures and then my experience as a teacher and a parent of these schools.

I mean these schools are taking over, yet all you hear is teachers saying how behaviour is getting worse.

Oh, that's awful. That's the kind of thing that would have crushed DD. At her school they have a simple uniform of shirt, trousers/skirt and jumper. And guess what? They all comply with uniform as it's not made difficult! I hope she is enjoying her home education.

We're not talking about relatively strict schools. My DD's school is strict - she follows all the rules. Because like your school, I imagine they are sensible and have proportionate punishments. People are talking about the ultra harsh schools who have rules that aren't sensible and with punishments that aren't proportionate.

It worked 'well' in Germany between 1933 and 1945.

It was just his local comp, well the only one in the town so no choice but no fight to get him in. It has been wonderful for him.

Taking over what exactly? Schools are there to educate. Quite often they can't because of the behaviour of "some" kids.

But your comments appear to suggest that this is common. I work in schools, I certainly don't see lots (any) of these "ultra harsh" ones. What I do see are lots of social media posts on our community groups lamenting the fact that "poor little Jonny" wasn't allowed to wear their hoodie to school or "my Tilly" suffers with anxiety, she shouldn't be made to take out her nose stud, despite the fact she got it last week and the uniform policy was sent out at the beginning of term clearly stating no nose studs unless clear.

Sadistic I would say. Seems very worrying and strange to me that so many teachers across the country so not stand up for the children in situations like this. Like you say it is cruel and I don’t see how they don’t argue to the SLT against it and refuse to implement it.

Possibly because just as these rules can be used to manage out non compliant students they can also be used to manage out non compliant staff.

Teachers don't get to make the policies, we don't choosing support for SEND children, we can barely choose what we teach. The capacity to teach children and individualise learning is becoming harder and harder to achieve. All teachers want idyllic classrooms with time to pastorally support every child but the curriculum in ram packed and classes are large. The government have screwed up schools with their lack of funding and by dragging down the teaching profession. I went into teaching to make a difference and to build relationships with children and families. I can't imagine many teachers will say differently. Sadly the inability to do this will contribute to me leaving after 20+ years.

But sadly in my DDs school the shift to a draconian behaviour policy is being done 'for teachers' because of the recruitment challenges.

I can't believe most teachers much enjoy having to constantly dish out detentions for silly mistakes. I certainly can't imagine they are enjoying the push back from parents and having to run around and sort out issues when kids are given detentions in error (eg DD got one for not doing online homework when I'd seen her do it but it hadn't registered as completed on the system).

Or the meetings about attendance where they are having to reassure good well behaved kids that getting detention doesn't matter and they shouldn't worry about it, just to get them to not be so worried they are missing school.

So the policy is to try and retain teachers? I'm assuming as without it behaviour is unmanageable?

@Extendedoctopustentacles it may not yet be 'common' but I think this thread has highlighted a growing trend in schools toward over the top behaviour policy.

I don't take issue at people being told to follow the uniform guidelines. I don't agree that a breach is an instant jump to detention. Yes, told to take off the hoodie or nose ring. Yes, if they are caught again then detention is maybe more justified but I'm talking about kids getting automatic one hour after school detention for top button undone.

No! There's little evidence behaviour was a problem. It was an ofsted outstanding school getting amazing exam results.

In a parent survey last year 75% of parents felt behaviour was good or very good. The school is using the 25% of parents who did not say this as the catalyst for the new policy, as well as teacher recruitment.

Yet the 80% of parents who expressed concern about the new policy in a recent survey are being ignored.