unruly kids

[xxxJess123xxx]

hi all my kids are just turned 8 and just turned 5, oldest girl and youngest boy.

their behaviour is actually driving me to depression and I genuinely cannot cope.
it starts from the moment they wake. DD won't get out of bed, dressed, teeth you name it, so won't do it. iv tried numerous punishments and it works for an hour then back to square one. She can be rude, defiant and answers back. Pushes the boundaries constantly. Talks in an annoying deep loud voice (purposely) when over excited, which is constantly.
Is apparently an angel at school and doing well in all areas, excelling actually so its obviously just me.

DS is an absolute nightmare. Taking him to the shops sees him run off, pick things up from the shelves, not listen, I tell him off or hold him hand so you throws himself around/on the floor and screams blue murder. I have had people tut and huff and stare at me which is actually soul destroying.
Indoors he runs full pelt everywhere, does front flips on the sofa, is so loud and doesn't listen to a word I say. Again I have tried all sorts of punishments, time out in room, taking toys away, taking weekend screen time away (not allowed any Monday to Friday as makes behaviour 10x worse) but again nothing works.
I have even tried the over the top love bombing parenting but it only works for a short time and it just back fires in my face.

Together, they fight constantly, with hitting, kicking, shoving and slamming doors in faces. Just before bed is the worse, with them genuinely acting possessed running and fighting.

No one wants to come round and see me.
I hate taking them anywhere
I hate being at home.
im so embarrassed by how much I have failed as a parent.
I just feel like I am slowly loosing my mind.
I have a husband, he works long hours. I work school hours. They behave the exact same for him.

Im so sorry for the essay and writing it all on here but I don't know how to carry on xx

@xxxJess123xxx I would read stuff about ADHD but my 20 yr old dd was recently diagnosed as an adult and she was never out of control, abusive or disrespectful in any meaningful way (every kid has their moments), however she was the 5 yr that couldn't get up! 😂😂 and was always my most unusual one, as if she was dancing to a different tune.

I have a lot of empathy for you, you have a lot on your plate and it must be so stressful.
I would just start with ONE thing that is a priority for you that you want to see change in your kid(s). It takes a least 3 weeks to develop a new habit, get that ingrained before you move on. It will take some time and dedication to turn this ship around.

What is your NUMBER ONE priority for your peace of mind right now so we can troubleshoot with you?

Deep, I have read bits on ADHD which describe him to a t at home but he is perfect at school, is that the case that they can be fine at school and crazy at home x

Agree with this. It really works.
Two books I found useful are Little Angels by Dr Tanya Byron and Divas and Dictators by Charlie Taylor.

Yes they absolutely can be angels at school and nightmares at home. It may not be ADHD but do talk to the school about it. A good teacher/SENCo may be able to pick up on other little bits in the classroom that are parts of the puzzle.

As a teacher I hear about it a lot. Sometimes it's down to the relationships in the family (yours sounds strained as you are drained from their behaviour - which is understandable) sometimes there is an additional need.

School can also get you signed up to early access.

Baking ok I will ask the school. I’m so done

I did go to a parenting class when my first was about 2 just so I would have a few strings in my bow ahead of time. We can always learn more and we all have unexpected things happen.

One piece of advice I liked is you don't have to give immediate consequences when something happens and you're not sure what your discipline response should be. You can always say "I am going to have to think about what the consequences of this are going to be" or "Dad and I need to talk about what your consequences should be".

It gives you time to calm down and think things over and maybe get imput from others, because sometimes in the moment we do draw a blank.
For some kids just saying that will get them worried and it's good to let them sweat for a while! You just need to make sure you DO follow up with a consequence, otherwise your kids will learn you are full of sh**.

This article explains about how all behavior had a consequence, natural or otherwise.

A natural consequence is your kid forgets their football kit and you don't take it to practice for them (some parents would never do this anyway, but if your kid is lazy, they are less likely to forget their kit again if they have to run around in their clothes or are benched for the session).

centerforparentingeducation.org/library-of-articles/discipline-topics/consequences-made-easy/

No advice but just wanted to say I relate 100%, and it is reassuring to read tbh, as all I seem to see in public is calm and patient parents with children who aren't draining the life out of them. Myself and DH are starting to feel depressed with the stress of the constant fighting between them and their constant loud voices, defiance etc. One does have diagnosed ADHD, but a diagnosis hasn't fixed anything at home. Both behave very well in school too (the one with the diagnosis did display obvious ADHD in school when younger but has matured enough to hold it together at school now, but not anywhere else).

I so relate to you OP. It’s so debilitating and I can barely go anywhere for fear of what they’ll do. Just last week DD threw her favourite weasel puppet down a well at a family wedding. Ruined the whole weekend and we had to go home immediately

The language here is insufficient.

You're asking "please".
You're saying "I would like you to..."

You need to get down to his level, look him straight in the eye and tell him that you "expect" him to hold your hand at all times in the supermarket and that you and he will both go straight home if this doesn't happen. Then you require verbal acknowledgement of what you said - he needs to repeat your words.

Do not use the word please. Issue direct instructions and sound like a woman who takes herself seriously.

Leave the supermarket immediately if he breaks the deal. Abandon your trolley. Go home. Tell him why.

The problem is "being a good boy" is a bit vague. "You will hold my hand" or "Hold onto the trolley" is clear and specific and you can concentrate on that particular action. If he manages that you have something to praise (you may have to ignore something else, like being loud, but focus on anything he has done well).

Similarly with your daughter in the morning - break the process into steps then you can work on one thing at a time. Perhaps you can make a chart together (get up when told, eat breakfast, get dressed, brush teeth, put on shoes and coat etc) so she has input into what needs to be done. You may decide to focus on one or two actions each week, reward with praise and stickers and ignore any 'bad' behaviours. Rewards need to be small at first but with the possibility of a bigger treat that can be earned.

You're obviously trying hard but it isn't really working so you need to try another approach

I’ve asked for an assessment for my DD for ADHD too. I think much of our issues comes from her being very full on, very loud, but my DS being sensitive to noise and needed down now. So their needs clash and then they clash.

Whatever the weather, come rain or shine get them outside for an hour or two daily. Wear waterproofs and jump in puddles. Also consider climbing lessons, bouldering, swimming, bowling, ice skating, also football and gymnastics clubs. Your boy needs to expel his energy. More exercise may make earlier bedtimes easier?

An earlier bedtime for the girl (not as a punishment but so she feels refreshed in the morning). An earlier start, so she can have a cuppa in bed and audible stories or cheerful radio music or radio chatter for half a hour snuggled in bed with any pets and the curtains just slightly open to let a little natural light in. Clothes on the radiator so they are warm to get into.

Bedtimes. Your husband does one child and you do the other. Bath, story, bed with lots of positive attention and chatter. Swap child each night.

Have quality 1:1 time with each child daily. Half an hour or whatever. Watching something together or baking or doing a jigsaw. Make the children feel treasured and held in positive regard. Start focusing on the things they do right. Say thsnkyou and show appreciation when they behave nicely.

Also consider how you both talk to the children and each other. A big emphasis on punishments is very negative and will naturally get a negative reaction from kids. Rewards may be more effective? A favourite tune, story, drink or programme once ready for bed. Remember to talk your children in a way that you would liked to be talked to.

No advice but solidarity! 8 and 6 year old boys fight constantly, won’t do anything they’re asked and are a general nightmare at home and out. Add a 2 year old to the mix who has tantrum after tantrum. The 3 of them are like feral animals, jump all over the furniture and scream at each other all day long! I can’t cope, feel I’ve lost all control and just generally hate my life most days.

all behaviour is communication. The hitting and poor behaviour in shops is telling you something very clearly. What can you do differently? Can you have a break from visiting shops to break the negative routine and order online? After a couple of months break could you trial a short shop but ask him to help, make it into a game where he helps you find items from a very very short shopping list. Lots of praise. In and out of the shop quickly with 5 items.

So what's the 'reward' for listening?

You can't just punish all the damn time.

Imagine if that was your life, every single thing you did wrong got punished, but nothing you do right got rewarded in any way.

It's a change in mindset so, you need say things like "I need you to hold my hand, so we can shop quickly, then we will have enough time to go to the park" Rather than "you didn't hold my hand you can't go to the park"

They can't be naughty all the time.

They clearly do get dressed... Praise
They clearly sit down and eat dinner... Praise
They absolutely do have periods of quiet at some point... Praise
They obviously come with you to the shops and other places, so when they're sitting in car with seatbelts or whatever... Praise
Doing a nice bit of reading/colouring/craft/playtime... praise

You have to notice the small positives they do and heavily praise those. It's really hard. But every tiny thing they do right is to be praised.
Yes DD pissed around and took ages to get dressed, but she got dressed, so instead of punishing her for pissing around, remind yourself that she did what was asked, praise her. Be specific "thank you for getting dressed, now we're ready to go. Next time we'll hopefully have more time to do X"

Keep an eye out for it. And praise!

I know it’s not always a popular opinion but I’d watch a few Super Nanny episodes, there’s tons on YouTube.
Get some new ideas, get some techniques and see what works for you.

Mine are similar ages and youngest has adhd so I can relate to that feeling of dread taking them anywhere.

My best days are when I "employ and exhaust" them - get them to help you with things, wear them out, get out even if it's raining (especially when it's raining for my kids! They love being in nature and getting dirty). Give them meaningful jobs in the house, give them tasks that involve helping each other etc.

In the shop let your 5yo use the scanner or carry something 'heavy' for you. Let your oldest read off the list and the little one gets the item puts it in the trolley.

Limit screen time and GET OUTSIDE. The weather doesn't stop us. Mine need to be walked at least once daily 😆

A big one that helped me was to say yes to everything you can, so they know you mean it when you say no. For example, whenever my kids asked to play with play doh or paint or go out and jump
In the puddles I would think of the mess and tidy up after and say no. Then it felt like i was always saying no and they didn't really hear "no" anymore. I now say yes to everything, they help with clean up and chores like hoovering, dishes, washing and cooking. It's worth it because now they know when I say no to something, i mean it. And if you set a punishment/consequence you MUST stick to it. Very very important.

Just to add, I would make sure each gets at least 10 mins 121 with you most days. Actually listen to them when they talk about something they are interested in and engage. I felt like sometimes a lot of the behaviour was attention seeking and also notice when my kids feel close and connected the behaviour you describe is less so.

I would recommend the incredible years book, and also 15 minute parenting.

@rumbypumby or as my MIL used to say "I'll take them outside and run them".

Taking a parenting course doesn't mean you have failed! I have a ds who is 4 and currently being assessed for autism. He's technically very well behaved, but has issues with anxiety, transitions, routine etc. He's very high energy and listening isn't always His strong suit. The nursery manager recommended a parenting course to us that she has taken a variation of 3 times to help with her kids through different stages of development. We looked into it and plan to sign up next month. I don't think we're failing as parents but we do sometimes feel out of our depth and maybe some different perspectives/extra advice could really help.

Totally agree with the comments about giving them your full attention and listening, also employ and exhaust.

Math, he would love to not go to the supermarket so I’m sure, if I tell him that we will leave straight away if he does xyz, I guarantee he will do xyz.
I never do a full shop, I popped into the shop yesterday to get a kettle as mine had broken that day.

the reward for listening is not getting bloody told off. He’s already been in his room this morning but smacking his sister in the face. Tell me how you gentle parent that

That's crazy... Your reward is not getting punished???

Imagine your life right now. Every tiny thing that was wrong got punished and you had zero reassurance you were doing the right thing...and you're a child and need your mum to help you learn.

And all she does is punish you for things you do wrong with no recognition of the things you're doing right.

Well, clearly the way you're going about focusing on punishment isn't working.

It depends on why he smacked her. What led up to that event? Did smacking her result in your undivided attention? Were you drawn from something else?

How much positive 1 to 1 time do your kids get with you? Because kids will seek attention, negative if needed, if they aren't getting enough.