To think we wouldn't have as many MH problems if we lived differently

[Ginlette]

Panic attacks, anxiety, depression...

How much of this is happening because of the way our society is set up?

If we all lived in fairly small communities and had good relationships with friends and family near by, would we have these issues? If we had stable work that didn't feel like an impossible workload and paid fairly?

I'm even beginning to wonder whether "positives" of modern living are actually subtly undermining our MH as a society.

• The obvious examples being the Internet and phones, but also..
• Mobility: looks good on paper, but maybe the idea of the world being your oyster subconsciously is anxiety inducing?
• Travel: fun but frequent travel again contributes
• Home ownership and improvements, style & beauty inprovements: again this idea of we have choice, but is it contributing to a low level sense of always chasing?
• More freedom of partner and freedom to have children or be childfree: but does it create a "What if?" sensation past generations wouldn't have had fluttering at the edges of their mind?
• Remote working/self employed: I have done this for over a decade but does it maybe contribute to a sense of no base, no community?

So true about choice, most of it is illusory. It's freedom to dine at the Ritz - if you can afford to. But that choice is not really a choice we have. Just as choice in everything else is not a real choice. My DH lived on Shetland for nearly twenty years and was totally phazed to see 30 different types of orange squash in a supermarket. We do not need 30 types of orange squash! Too much choice is as disempowering as too little. I do not need to be able to choose which hospital I have my ears examined at, I need to be able to rely on my GP's referral. I need equality of opportunity for everyone and a safety net I cannot fall through - I do not need competitive electricity companies who all charge the same and whose offers are impossible to understand (a nationalized electricity board worked much better) and leave me no better off, whichever I choose; nor do I need competitive water companies that commodify what we all need - water - and cannot do without. These choices are also illusory because, in reality, we have no choice but to buy them. All this gives everyone a sense of freedom and then they discover that the important things they need are not within their freedom - a mother cannot afford to stay home with her children, a grandmother cannot afford to stop working at 65 (and is not allowed to, either, she'll lose pension benefit). Those are real choices. How many sorts of orange juice and the ability to have competitive water companies are a chimaera hiding our real lack of choice.

Kind of. I suspect that to get back what suits humans best psychologically, you'd have to go way back - to hunter gatherer times.

Once we started getting relatively comfortable, it messes with our psyche a bit. Counter intuitive I know.

However it's not even in question that phones and social media have had a dire effect, on top of everything else. Particularly for young people. Engaging with our environments and the people physically around us is really important to our well being.

I do remember in the 1960s and 1970s that MH was labelled differently, it was Mrs Robinson down the road suffers with her nerves, or Miss Lane has got a prescription for valium as she needs the help.

The asylums were full to bursting that people were moved from Liverpool to Warwick or out of London to different asylums as the sheer numbers were so very high. Looking through the asylum records of inmates of the 1880s there would be notes and you'd think they'd be given tablets now and live a relatively normal life.

Some didn't go to the asylum they literally walked into the canal to end it all, coroners inquest would take place and the witness often told of a man (most were men even back then) that was in a depressed state

The way we live is indeed a factor to our mental state but its not something new and proportionally do we have more people with MH or is it that its more spoken about

While for other it creates stress /about planning, finances, packing.../ and pressure to go somewhere and do things.

People can massively limit it though if they choose to and they can choose the people they talk to.

There are still personal choices made in its use regardless.

@Ginlette i have this although I didn’t used to. DH and I used to live in a town where we knew no one really, it was simply convenient. In 2021 we made the decision to move to his small home down where many of his school friends still live. Early 2022, my parents made the move to the next town over. The sense of community is like nothing I have ever experienced before and I am the happiest I have ever been.

One weekend last January when DH was very unwell and in hospital and I needed to be distracted, I walked to see my MIL and FIL for a coffee, a friend popped round to play scrabble with me for an hour, another friend invited me round for a glass of wine in the evening and the following day I went for a cup of tea at my parents. The sense of support and belonging was unmatched.

When we didn’t have the right drill bit for a job on a Sunday afternoon, we were able to borrow one. Spontaneous invitations round for dinner. Meeting friends in town for coffee without 2 weeks notice. Going to the butchers and having them say “oh you’re xxx’s DIL”. Being able to watch my dad sing in the carol service on a Sunday evening before Christmas. It is wonderful and I didn’t know I was missing it until I found it.

That is wonderful and I want to achieve the same for myself in 2024. I just need to pick which family member to latch on to as even those who live in the same country live in different regions!

I agree we indulge too much ‘mental health’ and don’t teach sufficient resilience. I have had life long anxiety and panic attacks and my responsibility is to manage that, not to bend the world to accommodate it.

Lack of choice causes MH issues. You only have to look at the collective journey of society since, say Victorian times and you can see how far we’ve come in terms of services available to all, quality of living standards, worker’s rights, women’s rights, children’s quality of life. Most ordinary working families can afford a nice holiday at least once a year. We can mostly afford to feed ourselves with good quality food choices available at our local supermarket. People suffering from poverty are not forced into the workhouses and we’ve stopped hanging people.

I think the road is getting easier, not harder. Imagine the MH problems facing a poor family living in squalor in London in the 1800’s. High child mortality rates, filthy, murderous streets, prostitution, starvation.

I’ll take living now thanks

Whilst I agree that community is lacking, I also feel we meet too many people these days. In the past, you would grow up and likely work with people you had known your whole life. Now we have to work with strangers, commute with strangers, shop with strangers. For neurodivergent people this is a nightmare. Constantly masking and figuring out social situations. The autistic farmer who pushed his plough up and down, selling his produce at Thursday market to people he knew, likely didn’t realise there was anything ‘wrong’ with him. The modern world is so socially complex and nuanced. Many people have been left behind who don’t have the skills to negotiate it.

I don't know, there are pros and cons to everything. Being online is addictive and I do need to cut down but OTOH I very much value the access I get to information and advice which in the past I would have mostly got from my mum or friends. Though social media is derided, my children have made good friendships through it with peers they would otherwise have never met. They can also easily chat with friends, whereas at their age I was restricted to talking on a fixed line in a family room.

I actually didn't mind the lockdowns (ducking quickly). I was able to continue working at my workplace, with restrictions. It was more relaxed than usual. (I did wfh some days but would hate to do that long term, I admit). No one in our families or amongst our friends was badly affected, so we were fortunate. The worst thing was a degree of boredom though I felt I could laze around without guilt and that felt good.

I moved away from my home area for good in my mid twenties and only went back for visits and one 8 month stint after 18. I can see the value now in being closer to my parents but everyone else I know also eventually moved away and I wouldn't have had the life I do have if I'd stayed. As for rural life - no way, I am a dedicated urbanite - love the country side for holidays and trips.

Yes too much choice can be an issue but I find if I focus I can rule most of it out - even if only arbitrarily.

As for MH, I think it was always there but not always recognised. Sadly we can't/ don't necessarily treat it as effectively as we could, but it doesn't have the stigma it used to have.

As for changes in attitudes towards minorities,women,sexual abuse etc, it's still a journey, but we are in vastly different place (in Western countries) than we used to be. It would be awful if the tide turned on that.

Overall I think modern life is an improvement on the past, though we never know how things will pan out.

I think modern life is filled with things that make life overwhelming .

Technology is partially the cause . A lot of us are on our phones constantly. The light they give off isn't good for us. We are surrounded by appliances that emit slight sound and some light.
All the energy saving street lights and lights are weird . Every thing is demanding and needs to be instant .All this is within about the last 20 years or so.

To me, what you describe sounds quite nice, despite having lived in cities most of my life.
But if you look on MN you see quite a few posts from people who would find neighbours dropping by for dinner or family staying over stressful and/or annoying.
Everyone is different.
Some people really enjoy travelling. It doesn’t affect their mental health in a negative way, all the opposite.
Others feel safer in the environment they’ve grown up in.
Personally, I love talking to different people and seeing friends, so I’d say I’m fairly sociable, but the idea of joining local community groups doesn’t appeal to me at all, whereas others might find it really helpful.

The thing is there isn’t any particular way that is going to make people happy, given that we all have very different ideas as to what having a happy life entails. One person’s wonderful life is the absolute hellish existence of another.

The best you can do is strive for your own sense of peace, and allow other people to strive for theirs.

I think this is what is missing for lots of people... including me.

Like I said, I have friends but we are slightly scattered now. We might meet up once every month and catch up. But I'd say we live separate lives and meet up to let each other know what's going on in our lives rather than being an actual part of each others lives if that makes sense.

I don't have anyone I could call on for coffee or ask to come shopping with me.

I’m not convinced that mental health is any worse now than it was historically. We just talk about it now.

My great grandma ‘suffered with her nerves’ and was hospitalised a couple of times. It was all very hush hush (and it seems like people largely ignored that she had multiple still births and waved her husband off to war).

Generations of men suffered PTSD after wars. Women could legally be raped by their husbands. Very little help for victims of abuse. Poverty and living in slums. The pressure of being judged for any perceived moral failings by your lovely close knit community (girls being sent away to give birth in secret and forced to give up their babies, men and women hiding their sexuality all their lives for fear of repercussions, etc). Terrible working conditions with the real potential of starving if you failed to make enough money…

The idealistic image of ‘the good old days’ doesn’t really exist. Plenty of people have been miserable throughout history, they were just better at hiding it. And for those that couldn’t limp on, suicides were often reported as accidents to save the feelings of the family left behind (this happened in my family as recently as the 80’s).

So what you’re saying is we shouldn’t have nice things, anything fun, be able to travel etc just because some people can’t cope with the world?

People need to build resilience and learn to help themselves.

I agree with OP about the breakdown /lack of community feeling in society and the MH problems it causes. The sense of isolation is creating real difficulties for many.

I am Gen X and have certainly have witnessed this change since my childhood in the 70’s /80’s. It’s truly shocking. ( I am not including Covid in my ramblings!).

I think it might be different in other UK counties, so I can only go on my experience. When I lived further north in bigger urban areas, I found locals lovely. At the moment I live in Kent, in a small, fairly rural town.

Many retirees and some young families. Next year, once my youngest finishes her A Levels, we are moving to a completely different part of the country.

I’m absolutely determined to find a neighbourhood with a more caring, friendly community atmosphere. I don’t mean living in each other’s pockets as that would be stifling but at least some sense of care and sharing.

My children are all older teens now but agree the area we live in is not welcoming. The town is pretty and people wax lyrical about it as it’s quaint and ‘ old fashioned’. It focuses on events more for retired folk during weekdays when I am working. So possibly there is more community than I am able to experience. But I was a stay at home parent for years here too and still felt isolated.

I was walking around my large, sprawling 1960’s estate last week on New Years Day. Not a soul around except the odd dog walker. I thought just how dystopian and dysfunctional is this way of life now?! I hate it.

This area is a quiet estate. Apart from my immediate neighbours on either side and two doors down, I know no one else. There must be 3/4 thousand people on this estate overall. Mostly retired. But there is just no sense of community whatsoever ; no hall, no events, no street celebrations, no local pub, no one chats in the street or greets each other. Nothing. It’s really odd actually. The estate is eerily quiet. People come and go , put out their bins and walk their dogs but no one stops to chat or even say good day.

We are all living totally isolated, individualistic lives in these squashed little boxes. Where I am, the houses are tightly packed but well presented semi’s- not a spread out detached tree lined avenue where it’s harder to connect with your neighbours.

There is no friendliness here. Some have tried and failed; there was one brave soul who put out books to create a street library. One sent fliers round to arrange a Jubilee street party but it came to nothing.

I find it really upsetting that no one cares and most deliberately ignore each other.

To say that I’m looking forward to leaving in 2025 an understatement. Perhaps if you are retired here it might be different but even then, I see no socialising in particular. No one cares if you live or die sadly!

I am so hoping to find my tribe and at least talk to my neighbours more etc. I think this modern way of disassociating from each other is truly harmful and so sad to see.

I am wondering if it’s just me, the very provincial area I’m in or all of the south of England generally becoming more London commuter centric, developing their social lives there instead? I’m not sure. Also many locals who grew up here don’t like newcomers or those ‘ down from London’ as I was 10 years ago. There is an underlying, covert racism in Kent too generally which is really unpleasant. The hatred towards migrants is almost palpable and most get moved on and away from Kent.

The villages around here still appear to be more community orientated but my town is not, despite it having a butcher, a fishmonger, a literary and beer festival once a year. On the surface, the town looks amazingly friendly but that’s not been my experience actually living here for a decade.

I am a teacher and I am used to chatting to lots of people all the time. So I’m not an insular person as such and enjoy socialising, getting to know people. Although I find shop owners very friendly, my residential area is certainly not. Very sad indeed. I hope things change one day.

I have found as I have got older a simple life is best. Keep debt to a minimum and try and not give a bugger what everyone else has got. You spend the first half of your life accumulating and the second half getting rid of it. It’s a cliche but it’s people and experiences that matter - not material stuff. I appreciate for many people this is easier said than done what with the cost of living etc but if you can cut your cloth accordingly- it’s leads to peace of mind.

In other words; capitalism.

My feeling of contentment definitely improved when my mum and brother moved to the same village as me. I'd been living in a new village with my partner and children but felt I could relax more once I had family close by. I also started working in a local nursery around the same time so started to feel part of the community when people would bump into you and chat at the shop or on a fete day etc.

I think today’s unwillingness to debate societal issues is causing a lot of mental health issues for people. Tribalism is rife and neither side is prepared to listen to the other side or, as I’ve seen in many instances, one side simply refuses to debate despite the other side being willing to listen and argue their point. Living in such a back and white world is unhealthy in my opinion and I think we’d benefit from acknowledging shades of grey.

Narcissism is also encouraged, not simply tolerated, in modern life which leads people to show off (as it used to be called) and eventually they seem to come a cropper when the ideal family lives they portray for their followers are exposed as abusive etc. Again, this obsession with being better than others, striving for perfection is bound to cause anxiety, amongst other mental health disorders.

I tend to agree with this.

Modern society deals with mental health in more humane ways. (More often than not). Counselling, medication, meditation, health retreats etc. In the olden days mental health issues could land you in an insane asylum, electro shock therapy, labotomy.

Perhaps in the past there was more incentive to keep your mental health issues to yourself.

😁

@Comedycook thats exactly what it was like for us before we moved and is still the case for me with friends that I went to school or uni with but I think that is normal. It gets me quite emotional sometimes thinking about our decision to move here and how it was all on a bit of a whim in the end - having rented in various places and lived in a village as a child where all my school friends lived in the same town this is the first time I have experienced this sense of belonging and I’m just so sad I missed out on it for 28 years of my life!