To think we wouldn't have as many MH problems if we lived differently

[Ginlette]

Panic attacks, anxiety, depression...

How much of this is happening because of the way our society is set up?

If we all lived in fairly small communities and had good relationships with friends and family near by, would we have these issues? If we had stable work that didn't feel like an impossible workload and paid fairly?

I'm even beginning to wonder whether "positives" of modern living are actually subtly undermining our MH as a society.

• The obvious examples being the Internet and phones, but also..
• Mobility: looks good on paper, but maybe the idea of the world being your oyster subconsciously is anxiety inducing?
• Travel: fun but frequent travel again contributes
• Home ownership and improvements, style & beauty inprovements: again this idea of we have choice, but is it contributing to a low level sense of always chasing?
• More freedom of partner and freedom to have children or be childfree: but does it create a "What if?" sensation past generations wouldn't have had fluttering at the edges of their mind?
• Remote working/self employed: I have done this for over a decade but does it maybe contribute to a sense of no base, no community?

In principle I agree with your premise - that the way we live today is why we are stressed. However, I would disagree with the factors you've identified about modern life. I think they are more fundamental.

Ridiculously high employer expectations - in professional jobs full timers regularly work many more than 60 hours per week, and there is an always on culture so even breaks can be interrupted by evening/weekend contacts or being "on call".

Apportionment of workload/childcare burdens at the wrong times of life. All the load of preschool and young children's' wrap around care falls to parents who are simultaneously trying to hold down two pressurised full time jobs on little sleep. They are also the most skint. It's miserable. IMO.

Meanwhile at retirement we slack off and have neither financial nor workload burdens. If I got to choose, I'd pay it forward for the sake of lightening the load on young parents.

Loss of social bonds and community - we've succumbed to the pressure to be a mobile workforce - instead of employers moving to the workforce, the workforce has had to move to them. Families are split across huge distances which doesn't help.woth the above two factors.

We've also allowed housing to become a commodity rather than a fundamental part of the social pact. Profiteering has predictably happened and left younger generations feeling hopeless.

There are so many things wrong at the moment but the main one is inequality has increased, meaning we have a lot of very rich people coasting on the efforts of a lot of very poor people. That's miserable for many.

Humans are not built for modern society, we haven't evolved for it - it's impossible for us to as it's happened so bloody fast!

It's no surprise to me that so many are claiming UC rather than participate in the hellscape.

Modern life seems to only be good for those who prefer things over people, and who can afford to prefer things over people.
The happiest people these days are the ones with disposable income, but not everyone is capable of having disposable income for many many different reasons.

But feeling like an inadequate failure isn't a mental illness. Human emotions are OK and normal. Having a mental illness will not be caused or cured by staying of social media or by any of the things op listed.

I agree with PP’s. As someone who doesn’t suffer with my MH, but with a relative and the odd friend that very much does I do very much see the difference in those that do and those that don’t.

SM and media has placed expectations upon us subconsciously and having too much time to invest in following all of this can have a seriously negative impact.

Worrying about what others are doing, keeping up with the Jones, being perfect enough, worrying about world affairs and over investing in them….

Honestly I have a relative literally trawls the internet to invest herself in things and if they aren’t worrying about themselves, putting themselves against others, what others may think of them, what they have/don’t have then they are literally worrying about things they can’t change (including things like Megan Markle and her affect on the dynamics of the Royal Family which I found just ludicrous the amount of time they invested in trawling the internet and worrying about this). Also dwelling on the past rather than learning to move on, that’s big.

Choices are everything. Good diet, good regular exercise, being out meeting people/building relationships, investing your time wisely is all part and parcel of good mental health. If you are working on living a good full life for yourself you are winning, and that’s not about how much you spend to achieve it, pleasure can be derived from the simplest things, like building relationships helping in your local communities.

We don’t all have to have fancy things and 2.4 children, etc. We really need to just take time to really think about our choices and what they mean and if we are happy with the consequences of those choices. If not we need to make a change.

Like a PP said above about young parents having to hard and not having family around to support you. It’s not your families job to accommodate your choices, when deciding to have children you need to think about really truly how that’s going to look and how affordable it is, if you still want to do it you then need to plan how and what that will look like. We need to be intentional in the things we do.

I'm talking more now after 2020 shut downs, to people on dog walks, saying hi, smiling in shops. Some are thinking crazy, why is she acknowledging my existence, some are thinking you acknowledged me and I'm happy. Risk it, it's lovely and people find themselves speaking to you. X

First off - MH does not equate happiness all the time. You can be deeply sad ans have perfectly fine MH. If one is always trying to live up to the status quo. Or do what they think everyone else is doing or achieving they will be miserable forever. It seems like many people, you’re not content because you’re not clear about what you want.

Going back to when I was young MH of course existed but these people were ridiculed and misunderstood so in a way highlighting this with technology highlights, explains and offers help which wasn't available.

On the OH I do concur that, with many things, we can Google and try to self diagnose, fine, or even latch on to a possibility and become obsessed.

It's brilliant so many issues are more open now but yes SM has led to everyone become more self focused, able to live in VR and no need to interact and live want would be considered a normal life. Myself included, here I am typing, it affects us all!

Pros and cons, modern world, so fast, immediate and want worries me the most is no one will have any patience anymore when in the real world. Xx

Apologies if someone has already mentioned this but I think the constant barrage of targeted advertising massively affects our MH too. It's far too intrusive and plays on your worst fears. I'm overweight and feeling terrible about not losing it before my wedding but I'm so fucking sick of weight loss/diet ads being literally everywhere I look online. It's obviously twigged I'm still fta after ten years as I'm now being bombarded with counselling ads and ads for life insurance.
I dunno, I just hate me and my personal data being a commodity being bought and sold between companies.

I think people have always suffered with mental health problems. The difference is in the past a lot of it was covered up and
people put in institutions. I know people who’s female relatives were locked up for showing signs of depression. One poor soul was due to having a stillborn baby. Instead of getting help like she would today, she was thrown into a ‘mental home.’ There she stayed gradually being driven mad.
When I told my own mother that I thought I had postnatal depression, she told me never to say anything as I would end up with my baby being taken away from me. Neither the health visitor, midwife or doctors picked up on it despite me telling them all that I was finding life increasingly difficult to cope with.
Nowadays there is help available. You might think it’s not enough but trust me, it’s better than it used to be.

I'm much the same. I have friends who meet up for coffee every couple of weeks, which is lovely, but I miss the earlier years of my life when people just called in. I do have a friend who I could do this with, but she moved away. In the 80s we had family friends who lived just along the street and we were always in and out of each others' houses.

I've spent the weekend at home suffering a gallstone attack, and while I know my friends would have come to my rescue if I had really needed something, I really just would have liked someone to talk to. Everyone else seems so busy.

My parents are dead and I have no siblings, and while I am very happy living alone and being independent sometimes it would be nice just to have someone who felt comfortable just popping in or even phoning.

My mum is retired and has taken the “when I am old I will wear purple” route and starts conversations with strangers. She’s really good with body language (she’s actually just retired from a medical profession that required formal and up to date counseling qualifications.)

She came to visit London. She and another lady had a sing song at a bus stop the other day (no other people waiting). She says everyone leaves a little happier if you just ask them for their opinion about if the bus will come or have a little chat about the weather and I’ve seen this in action.

I am still mortified to know her as this activates my inner teenager. If I could become one with the floor I would have done so!

But people do smile more… there’s something to it.

Absolutely agree, DH and I are late 40s.

The pressure on DCs now is huge.
SATs, to know what career they want at 13, work crazy-hard to get through exams, to the right Uni.
So many young adults competing for the same careers.
Too much burnout in late 20s, early 30s.

The competitive nature of materialism is way out of hand.

OTOH few of us have fought in wars, standards of living are better, life expectancy higher.
Much greater awareness, and opportunity to take action to improve mental health now.

I used to be a Community Midwife and New Age travellers were in my patch and came looking for me as i did not judge and accepted them for there lifestyle They all contributed to help look after the new family bringing water and food etc so here was a little community One even parked her horse drawn caravan at the top of the village where o lived so she could get antenatal care Lots of doctors surgeries they would not attend because of the staff One-off our doctors would have a mug of tea around a camp fire as well plus lots of dogs

I completely agree OP. So much pressure to 'do it all ' and 'have it all'.
I'm so busy all of the time I have to constantly make lists just so I don't forget something important.
There's a lot of talk about mental health but very little actual support. Clinicians are run off their feet. Help is given via pills with no support to wean off them.
I feel so alone, anxious and overwhelmed. I know many others feel the same.

I don't understand how small communities make lots of these things better. SATs are sats in a city or a town, sometimes I think the pressure can be worse in a small community because "everyone" (slight exaggeration) knows where in a city it is more anonymous.

Same with social media or pressure to have a stylish home, it happens in small communities. So yes there are pressures but I don't see the size of towns/cities is a part of the problem.

I have suffered MH for 40 years( I'm 65).. it's clinical made worse by trauma. I've had stints in psychiatric hospitals. Had counselling on and off over the years. Been on various medication.. long before the Internet.. very close family of sisters.. very close life long friends.
Worked in counselling myself.
Had ECT.. had CBT.. had EMDR.. you name it I've tried it. Yet when the " black cloud " decends on me there is absolutely nothing that can bring auto relief.
My family look after me.. my GP will prescribe diazepam and ask if l want to go into the psychiatric hospital.
When I'm okay about 70% of the time like now.. l can think.." well if it happens it won't be forever ".
It can last anything between 3 days and 3 months.
But when I'm " in it" l can't reason with myself and think it won't be forever.
Unless you have really been there it's hard to understand..my Dad suffered and one of my 5 sisters suffer and one of my daughter suffers.. ( but not to my extend). I've seen a video of me in a state of depression and anxiety and it's like looking at an horror film.. l didn't recognise myself and don't want to ever see it again.

Interesting thread.
Obviously there has always been MH issues. My dad had serious MH issues in the 1970s/80s before SM/ Internet etc
I know if I put my phone down for a few hours I can concentrate better.
Sounds simple to do but actually easy to get distracted.
MH Conditions were very stigmatised in the past. People are more open about them now as there is greater sympathy and understanding.
However having Autistic teens I do wonder if perhaps in some respects life was easier for ND people in the past.
Less change, smaller community, family close by for support, jobs generally for life, and perhaps less demand and expectations. Less stressful education system..
As a teen there was a distinct line between home life and school life. I hated school and was bullied but when I got home I was safe and could switch off- my teens can't do this they are on SM and have FOMO - it's hard for them to switch off. Any bullying/ unkindness follows them home.
There is more pressure in schools for exams results, job that I did with 5 Olevels leaving school is now degree entry.
Job application process for even a min wage zero hours job is insane. My DC have had to do unpaid trial shifts and the employer expects you to be at beck and call 24/7 whilst only offering a zero hours contract.
Weekends and BH used to be family time.
Graduates have struggled at my work with WFH culture, young people generally like going into an office and some colleagues whom live alone have become isolated.
More people try and have it all , wanting latest cars, immaculately decorated homes, exotic holidays, etc which is often paid for by loans or credit cards.
Juggling full-time work and bringing up children and feel they are failing on all fronts, loads of after school clubs/ extra curricular stuff , supporting DC with homework etc that my parents just didn't do.
More on expectations on appearance, for example young girls are disfigured ( imo) with fillers in their lips - frankly theyd look better with their natural lips.
More worries about diet, obsessive healthy eating can quickly turn into a ED.
Its now much harder to get on property ladder or even rent as housing cost has far exceeded wage growth.
On flip side women have greater financial independence and more equal opportunities at work so hopefully less likely to be trapped in an unhappy marriage. However a lot of woman still carry more of the day to day responsibility of caring responsibility and running a home.
In some ways modern life can complicated with more expectations, demands and stress even though on the whole we are healthier and wealthier with more opportunities

Yes, I agree. Diet, tech, fashion, media all conspire to make us feel crap.

So many people with insomnia, anxiety, depression etc who drink gallons of caffeine and alcohol every day and live on microwave meals and Macdonald's and can't see a correlation.

So many people with migraines who spend 8 hours a day squinting at a computer screen and another 8 squinting at their phones when they get home.

So many people spending Christmas day posting selfies with their kids instead of playing games with them.

So many people overrun with laundry piles because they have too many clothes because they are so cheap to buy that we buy 10 of them then feel bad because our home is too small for all of our stuff but we have no money to move house because we have spent all our money on stuff.

But all that said, I would still rather live now than 200 years ago. Perhaps we are just seeing more panic attacks, anxiety, depression etc nowadays because we have medical interventions and good sanitation. Perhaps the same proportion of society would've suffered with MH issues 200 years ago, but didn't because they were wiped out during childbirth, flu season or an extra cold winter.

I agree completely

I don’t think that there are more MH problems today than there have always been - just that we have a healthier attitude towards it now, so it isn’t so hidden.
Each generation has different challenges: for those whose lives were badly affected by COVID lockdowns, I have great sympathy.
For my parent’s generation, they suffered with the London Blitz and losing friends and family to incendiary bombs, evacuation, food rationing then National Service.
In living memory, that “Blitz spirit” was really a repression of feelings and a “chin-up” response that wasn’t really helpful.
For previous generations, the abject poverty and misery of existence was documented by the sheer numbers of people who entered workhouses and died of “Insanity”.
Many of the challenges faced by previous generations are now gone: “progress” means that other issues have rushed to fill the gap…

Absolutely agree with all of this.

We need daylight, movements, play and community.

I WFH and use daily exercise and a community of outdoor swimming friends to keep me on an even keel.

Have been incredibly anxious and depressed in the past ( medicated ) - not only from serious life events

I read Cider with Rosie by Laurie Lee. It is his childhood in ?Somerset I think pre 2nd WW.
Lovely simple life - but everyone knows everyone, their fortune, their parents, their quirks - and the best thing I find in these books is everyone seems to accept that X is a bit odd, or left his family, or is a poor home manager or whatever. There is little judgement. But I guess then everyone was in the same boat had similar wealth (excluding local landowner) and got on with it.
But when I say little judgement gossip would have been rife.
Nowadays, perhaps because we have better opportunities like good education we are so critical and judgmental - no one is good enough. No live and let live.
Though, of course you funded your own life, and your children's - no benefit payments.

I've found this in books about the middle classes at this time too.

Anyway, I do think the internet is the problem - rather than always blaming Covid. Social media use soared at that time.

It must be hard being a teen nowadays.

I re-read Cider With Rosie recently, @Shoppingfiend , for the first time since O-level.

I was so shocked by the chapter where the boys plan to rape the disabled young woman. How had I managed to forget that? Not quite the rural idyll I’d hazily remembered.

ThisIsWhyWe I am not sure our standard of living is better at all. Yes of course we have safer work conditions but some have to work all the hours god sends just to eat. Yes we have better insulated homes but many can't afford to to live in one and if you do manage to find a place to rent or scratch a deposit together to buy one, you can't afford to heat the place. Not so long ago the average family with dad working and mum at home could have a night at the cinema followed by fish and chips every few weeks now you need a bank loan for that and that is with both parents working. Yes we have more medical resources but many of us are sicker than ever. We may have fancier kitchens and wine in the fridge but i really don't think our standard of living is better at all.

@Runnerduck34 what an excellent post.