To think we wouldn't have as many MH problems if we lived differently

[Ginlette]

Panic attacks, anxiety, depression...

How much of this is happening because of the way our society is set up?

If we all lived in fairly small communities and had good relationships with friends and family near by, would we have these issues? If we had stable work that didn't feel like an impossible workload and paid fairly?

I'm even beginning to wonder whether "positives" of modern living are actually subtly undermining our MH as a society.

• The obvious examples being the Internet and phones, but also..
• Mobility: looks good on paper, but maybe the idea of the world being your oyster subconsciously is anxiety inducing?
• Travel: fun but frequent travel again contributes
• Home ownership and improvements, style & beauty inprovements: again this idea of we have choice, but is it contributing to a low level sense of always chasing?
• More freedom of partner and freedom to have children or be childfree: but does it create a "What if?" sensation past generations wouldn't have had fluttering at the edges of their mind?
• Remote working/self employed: I have done this for over a decade but does it maybe contribute to a sense of no base, no community?

Depression isn't a new thing. It just didn't used to be talked about or diagnosed. In my family, I can find mental health issues going back to my great grandfather (who killed himself), and probably further if I was able to find out.

I don't think uc helps either. Not knowing if they suddenly going to decide not to pay you this month.

Just imagine how freeing it would be being paid enough to pay bills and live from your own hard work. Knowing what you can & can't afford.
Same with secure housing. It must be so draining being moved around different hotels, not knowing where your sleeping tonight.

but there has been poverty and uncertainty, work houses, for centuries

That's true, but because there hasn't been social mobility for centuries, maybe lilting in insecurity was something you suffered with, but didnt aspire to try and escape (I have no idea?)

There was a time when if you pretty much shed a tear, you'd be put into the workhouse for life. Maybe it's just more talked about now?

But I do agree that we were happier in the 70s/80s when there was more community and less "stuff".

or if you were hysterical you were sent to an asylum, bedlam

Depends on the person really.

Living in a village would be detrimental to my mental health. I wouldn’t be able to do my job, I love cities and all they offer.

I hate commuting everyday, so for me going into the office once a week suits me.

I love seeing other places and am happiest when I am out and about. I love the freedom quick, cheap, travel brings (I live in London).

I use social media sporadically, I’m one of those who don’t post anything, but like to see photos of what people are up to. I like it, I think it’s nice to see what old friends are doing. It’s never made me feel angry or sad.

I use the internet for fun, to learn, to catch up with people (messages/email/video call), that live far away. It’s made me feel close to people who I don’t live near. It’s a big benefit for me.

Largely YANBU, though I don't agree with your one about freedom of partners and having children or not. But every era has its advantages and disadvantages.

It's about choices. I see lots with MH issues but they choose to live their life on social media, and care far too much about others opinions and "likes".

Life has always been about choices.

Yes, but nobody makes choices in a vacuum. Our personalities and choices are largely a result of our environment and upbringing. For example someone who has never known the world pre-internet and pre-mobile phone is not capable of seeing those things through the same eyes as someone who has, and will make choices accordingly.

I think if therapy with a good counsellor became mandatory for everyone and then yearly or 6 month check ups like the dentist. Perhaps a counselling course teach people the basics of being aware of their own mental health and how to be mindful.

Would massively help. There's so much screen addiction going on and addiction in general.
If more people had the skills to navigate their lives and mental health themselves. If the general mindset changes then everyone would feel mire supportive and supported.

But a healthy society spends less money/spends differently so its not going to be supported by government big companies ect

There's definitely a lot of alienation, and stress caused by insufficient social safeguards.

Quite. 16 year olds claim to "have anxiety" about their exams, when they're feeling normal levels of nerves about sitting an exam.

Being anxious and having anxiety is not the same thing. But loads of people will tell you so many kids have anxiety.

I think we just forgot that having a wide range of emotions is normal! And not everything needs to be labelled

There is an element of truth in what you say. Our technology based day-to-day lives bring issues that previous generations didn't have to cope with and creates more things to be anxious about.

When I started work I used a manual typewriter and my boss received letters. He might take a day or so to dictate a response, sometimes he would change the wording after the letter was typed, so it could be 3- 4 days before his reply was sent off. Assuming the same thing happened at the other end, and allowing for post times each way, it might be a week before he got a response.

That whole process can now take 30 mins with email.

So the work environment seems more pressured, the expectation is if you send an email you will get a response with a few hours, not a few days.

SM is a choice, but some see it as a necessity and this can create issues around fomo anxiety etc.

But whether a simpler life equates to a better life, is debatable.

My mum never really got over the trauma of being evacuated. That fear of everything being out of her control and loss of family, friends and everything she was familiar with stayed with her and affected all her choices.

I think each generation faces troubles that are relevant to that period in time.

To be honest OP, I think you’re very much « grass is greener ».
We are actually really lucky with modern life. Some people in the world don’t have running water and you’re complaining that the world is your oyster?

None of this new though.

I cannot see any of the things you mention as anything other than a social good. Maybe some people are just inadequate.

Yes… consumerism, huge inequality, and awareness of how other people live (or pretend to live) from social media creates a lot of pressure. So many people working hard on low pay just to pay basic bills, but also people spending money on crap because that’s what we’re all pressured to do (because the economy has to keep growing so we need to constantly come up with stuff to produce and buy whether anyone really needs it or not). Thinking about my grandparents’ generation, it was so much easier for them - they could easily afford to buy a nice house and for one parent to stay home, on one normal salary. I wish we could focus our economy on our country being more self-sufficient, greener, healthier, happier… can’t see it happening though.

I agree with this. People are medicalising what are really normal human feelings. Having difficult experiences is not the same as being mentally unwell.

Yes, and always by men who dominated the medical profession and pyschiatry.

fairly small communities and had good relationships with friends and family near by, would we have these issues? If we had stable work that didn't feel like an impossible workload and paid fairly

This statement summarises my life set up and my mental health is pretty good. I am a strong believer is keeping firm good friendships as friends have been such a lifesaver for me during stressful periods and I have supported them too.
Due to this I have brought my son up in the same town, going to the same local schools as all their friends, we haven't moved house and I don't intend to. I have a full time, manageable job and although I was offered a promotion I didn't take it as I don't want the huge extra pressure it would involve.

I feel that stability of location, friendships and work is key to everything.

I think modern life is fundamentally incompatible with good mental health.

We’re still just apes. We need daylight, we need to move our bodies, we need to be around nature, we need to make things with our hands, be in physical contact with others, eat food our bodies need.

Instead we are inside most of the time, drive to places, sit in chairs in artificially lit spaces, create intangibles, are increasingly isolated from others and eat readily available food that’s actively bad for us because we evolved to seek sugary and carb-laden foods.

The internet heightened all this disconnect, has us competing to match airbrushed unreality we’re presented with. Our poor mammalian brains can’t evolve quick enough to adapt healthily.

I do think modern life brings a lot of stresses. But, I have family members who live a pretty simple life. Stayed in the remote village they grew up in, have each other and life long friends for support. Don’t earn mega bucks, but enough for a reasonable life. I guess as simple a life as you can get nowadays. But they have the same issues as everyone else. Depression, anxiety etc.

MH problems have existed as long as people have. We just talk about them more now.

“Community” has its positives. But it also has its negatives. Personally I was glad to get away from somewhere where everyone knows your business. Where mistakes you made as a teen were held against you for the rest of your life! It’s all hunky dory if you get on with the whole community but watch out if they turn against you for any reason. That can make life far lonelier and isolated than being somewhere where you know no one.

I mean... there's an element of truth here, but really, we just have words for what's going on now, and we recognise what's going on, so the numbers look higher nowadays for people struggling. Thank god we do - it means there are little boys out there whose worries are being taken seriously, rather than being told 'stop sniffing and man up', who then grow up to never to deal with/talk about their feelings and be shit partners/dad's because of it. There are young women out there talking to each other about the fact that the horrible behaviour their boyfriends display towards them is actually traumatic, not just 'boys will be boys'. There are people in middle age, who are learning that they aren't just 'stupid, and shit at everything' as they were told, and then told themselves, they have ADHD and their brain works differently. It's a much kinder world, and I am grateful for it. Yes, it's got its teething problems, and there are people out there who are misdiagnosis themselves, or using it as an excuse. But the fact we have more mental health awareness and understanding changes people's lives for the better more than it ruins it.

I'm semi-rural. Greenery is never far away and I can clear my head if a day has been tough. I set foot in London for the very first time in 2022 and I absolutely hated it. I cannot stand cities and crowds of people, and it felt like I'd arrived in a totally foreign country. Stress and anxiety was off the charts that day. I may need to go to London again soon and I'm dreading it.

I partly agree. Im feeling my mood worsening at the moment and trying to proactively tackle it by following the usual steps. It strikes me that many of these are trying to recreate what would have been a normal part of life a few decades ago.

Eg - keep active - wouldn't have been an issue if i had a job where I moved around more (or even wasn't WFH). Don't eat processed food - not so much of an issue in the 60s. Join stuff/build community - could have been fulfilled by organised religion back in the day. Better relationships - fuelled by social conventions that meant eg you went out visiting extended family regularly and not making an effort would be hugely frowned upon.

I know that all of those benefits also came with downsides - 'active' jobs where I'm from could be dangerous and lead to industrial disease, rigid social conventions can also cause a lot of unhappiness and prejudice. But it does take a lot of effort to then reintroduce the positive bits of these that are considered essential for mental health.

I agree with you. There are almost too many options & choices, which creates anxiety around whether we live in the right place, have the right job etc.

A simpler life is generally the way to go. So many people live ‘empty’ lives chasing the next holiday, house, car etc. A lot of them live in a bubble and never contribute to their community.