To think we wouldn't have as many MH problems if we lived differently

[Ginlette]

Panic attacks, anxiety, depression...

How much of this is happening because of the way our society is set up?

If we all lived in fairly small communities and had good relationships with friends and family near by, would we have these issues? If we had stable work that didn't feel like an impossible workload and paid fairly?

I'm even beginning to wonder whether "positives" of modern living are actually subtly undermining our MH as a society.

• The obvious examples being the Internet and phones, but also..
• Mobility: looks good on paper, but maybe the idea of the world being your oyster subconsciously is anxiety inducing?
• Travel: fun but frequent travel again contributes
• Home ownership and improvements, style & beauty inprovements: again this idea of we have choice, but is it contributing to a low level sense of always chasing?
• More freedom of partner and freedom to have children or be childfree: but does it create a "What if?" sensation past generations wouldn't have had fluttering at the edges of their mind?
• Remote working/self employed: I have done this for over a decade but does it maybe contribute to a sense of no base, no community?

I’m very close to my mum, but I know she silently disapproved of me going back to work part-time after I had kids. I also know (although she’d never say it) she’s more proud of my brother than she is of me because he has a far more prestigious job. You really can’t win.

Yes OP I agree
I struggle with loneliness and can become anxious easily. Community is the key to everything for me. I hadn't realised how little of one I had until I made it a priority to build a new one.
Also, I have had a social media break and the difference is marked. Comparison is the thief of joy for me. As well as the false nature of it. I've been at events, then seen the representation of them on social media and it looks like a Kardashian wedding rather than the perfectly lovely normal one we were at. I find this misrepresentation very unsettling but I don't know why.
Since giving up social media i am happier and more calm and I don't have the drive to buy things or look for new clothes, make up etc
One of the other big issues is that no one can explore an idea without being shut down or 'trumped' with the type of thing that is on this thread "Well I use all these things TO HELP my mental health" and often discussions end there, but life isn't a binary

To add to your list-
I think the food we eat being so far from simple, healthy, prepared at home contributes to our bad health in many ways.
Too much information contributes to children being over protected because of parental fear.

There's a view that the way we live nowadays could be a reason why so many people are now being diagnosed with Autism. 50 years ago, when life was less overwhelming, people with 'high functioning' autism went under the radar as they were able to get by. Life was less stressful and there was less sensory stimulation. This theory asks whether autistic people are the 'canaries in the coal mine' - a warning to us all that the way we live is damaging our mental health.

I grew up in a big city and 20 odd years ago moved to a small town in the SW. I hate it, I find it far more isolating than the city I grew up in. All I heard for years was how we needed brexit, now it is all about getting rid of the immigrants. So small minded and I long to move but DH is disabled and heading for 80 and he just can't face it.

I used to volunteer in a local school, lots of those kids I knew as 8 and 9 year olds are 18 and 19 now. All they want is to get away, they all hate it here.

It is a popular seaside destination so you can't really enjoy things in the good weather as the traffic is awful, the beach is packed and everything is a rip off as they need to make their money in those few weeks, even parking your car is prohibitively expensive in the summer and we can't get out without the car as DH can't walk. I just want to go home.

Poverty, loneliness and abuse are massive factors in poor mental health. All originate from human behaviour and social constructs. I’m he world isn’t a bad place but the way we live is awful.

Even MN is difficult and addictive.
I've asked for advice on MN on Leeds festival and it was good.
But I had two conversations with a mum and also two 21 year olds face to face and that felt so much more reassuring.

We've moved away from f2f and even on the phone now it's just awful, most telephone interactions I have with services are passive aggressive.
We are a passive aggressive society now.

I'm not sure but I was a young mum in the 70s and it wasn't unusual then.

The grass isn't always greener. Certainly in the past in small communities physical and mental abuse was rife and very difficult to escape. How do you ensure 'good relationships with family and friends'? You would have to change human nature.

I agrée to an extent. The internet and mobile phones surely contribute to poor MH, but we wouldn’t be without them.

I think social mobility and travel are always a positive - and striving for a secure home (home ownership) again seems positive to me.

There are things that would help like more of a social safety net and I agree with universal basic income - these would remove really pressing anxieties. But probably people have always had mental health difficulties and we didn’t label them as such.

I think if all jobs paid enough money to afford a normal, nice house and the ability to pay bills combined with living close to extended family and friends, vast majority of people would be happier.

This is true!

And people like me seem not to get on with others if stuck together for any long periods of time

Speaking as someone who lives in a small village and farming community where we depend on one another at times - just this week we’ve had bad flooding - I wouldn’t say that it’s all tea and cakes by any means 😀. Yes you are never alone and the mutual support can be great and everyone helpfully gets their corners knocked off because people soon find a way to deliver an opinion or three if you are not contributing enough or being awkward or unreasonable in some way, but it can also be quite judgemental and intrusive. And there can be lots of minor petty disputes rumbling along in the background.

I hate it, I find it far more isolating than the city I grew up in

I do think people have an idealised image of "community". For sure there can be some benefits. But there can be a lot of small mindedness, petty fallings out, gossip etc. It's not a utopia.

I did the opposite, went from a small village in the SW to a large city. The sense of freedom was amazing. I could be whoever I wanted to be. You couldn't pay me enough money to ever go back.

I can only speak for myself and what I notice with my DH.

I discovered I love working on and maintaining our garden, including landscaping, weeding planting, etc a some years back. I find it always makes me feel better when I’m low. The same with long walks and hiking different terrains even if the weather is grey.

DH got back into running with couch to 10K after having not ran in years. He is on anxiety meds, but him taking them and exercising makes a great difference in his moods. He’s happier and more present.

i really loved the anonymity of london after living in a village

@Iwasafool bizarre how places dependent on tourism become anti outsiders. Anywhere that's not a city does this though. Small towns in Herts are similar. Anywhere where degree education rates are lower. Then the educated ones all leave, so then it leaves a big gap. It's the same in Spain too.

I also think friendships nowadays are different. I have friends but I don't have day to day, small interactions with them. So a lot of my friendship group has moved away in order to afford to buy a home. We have a get together and catch up every few weeks which is great but I don't have day to day interactions that a lot of people would have had years ago...like a friend on your street popping in for a cup of tea or a friend to walk to the shops with etc.

Banning Instagram would be a good start IMO. Too many people seem to beat themselves up for being unable to attain the ‘perfect’ Insta lifestyle - since they’re unable to see or realise that it’s as fake as those pictures of ‘perfect’ Christmas decor in glossy magazines - usually shot in June!

People have always had mental health issues. Both my grandmothers, for example, "suffered with their nerves".

One was severely mentally ill at times. I think partly it was due to the opposite of some of the OPs points. She was extremely intelligent, with the mind of an engineer, but had to leave school at 14 to work in a factory.

For many working class women, there was no option to be a stereotypical 50s housewife. They were working their fingers to the bone in and out the home, while still raising children, and with very little control over the direction of their lives.

I wouldn't swap with her.

I think there are higher expectations for parenting these days too. In the 60's and even in the 80's the children fitted round the parents needs but now it's expected that the dc are the top priority and if you have any kind of life of your own then you're selfish and if they aren't doing brilliantly at school then you're a failure.

There are many things that my parents did in the 80's that were perfectly normal then but I would feel guilty about doing now.

I agree with pp there is a very idealised notion of community and family on here.

Yep...we fitted in with our parents. I spent many hours sitting quietly in a cafe while my mum met up with friends for a coffee. I also spent a fair bit of time standing outside the betting shop waiting for my dad to come out

I agree with the OP and also am in similar circs to yourself.

I feel completely isolated and disconnected in my current living situation. I'm long term single, have some health problems, and live in a newly created gentrified area. There's nothing whatsoever been put in for residents or for the local community here, there's nothing even leaning towards affordable (the most down at heel thing we have is a 'Gail's' coffee shop, everything else is restaurants and boutique shops for extremely wealthy people). Even the layout and design of the buildings is quite hostile and separating so one doesn't get to know any neighbours. There's no tenants association, nothing.

I'm in recovery from illness and have long term health challenges but still do force myself out to meet friends, attend local college classes, go to events etc and will start volunteering again soon but wow it's a lonesome existence and sometimes I'm simply not well enough and have to rest.

I regret the life choices I made in younger life now and I'm 'living in the consequences' of immature reckless decisions as well as severe health challenges but I never knew solitary confinement was where I'd end up. We need community and people.

Really great points op and something I’ve been thinking about for a while. I think that with the rise of individualism in society we have seen a sharp rise in mental ill health. That being said I can imagine that people in collectivist societies also face unique challenges. Ie more focus on social reputation etc.

Korea is a collectivist society and they have high rates of suicide. However, I understand there may be other reasons for this.