To think we wouldn't have as many MH problems if we lived differently

[Ginlette]

Panic attacks, anxiety, depression...

How much of this is happening because of the way our society is set up?

If we all lived in fairly small communities and had good relationships with friends and family near by, would we have these issues? If we had stable work that didn't feel like an impossible workload and paid fairly?

I'm even beginning to wonder whether "positives" of modern living are actually subtly undermining our MH as a society.

• The obvious examples being the Internet and phones, but also..
• Mobility: looks good on paper, but maybe the idea of the world being your oyster subconsciously is anxiety inducing?
• Travel: fun but frequent travel again contributes
• Home ownership and improvements, style & beauty inprovements: again this idea of we have choice, but is it contributing to a low level sense of always chasing?
• More freedom of partner and freedom to have children or be childfree: but does it create a "What if?" sensation past generations wouldn't have had fluttering at the edges of their mind?
• Remote working/self employed: I have done this for over a decade but does it maybe contribute to a sense of no base, no community?

I find it strange too, but I wonder if this attitude is more prevalent on MN than in real life?
Where I live people seem generally much more relaxed about It.

That’s exactly how it was during my childhood and I’m definitely not misremembering it because my parents and brother confirm it and my parents still live like that up to a point. They are elderly now and have lost many neighbours and friends but people do still pop in for tea and a chat. Personally, I prefer to prearrange meet-ups because I’m always busy and may well be out or working if people just turn up unannounced.

There does appear to be what I assume to be a new way of living where many Mumsnetters (no idea of their age group) are terrified to answer their front door without having scrutised forms from the caller, presumably filled out in triplicate many months preceding their scary visit!

I pick my dd up from her extra curricular activity once a week. Theres about 10/12 mums waiting outside, no one talks to each other or even looks up..every single one looking at their phone. So depressing

Aren't we designed by evolution to live on "tribes" of about 150 individuals?

I'm sure some years ago I read an area of scientific/anthropological study that concluded this.

This would suit me.

I loved lockdown. I hardly had to interact with anyone. I lost weight without even trying (which I attribute to lowered cortisol levels), and my whole existence slowed to a crawl.

I do however, appreciate that if I were a medieval peasant, scratching a substance existence from the land, rather than having a Sainsbury's delivery every week, it might not have gone so well for me.

This. I also wonder if the posters who say that we should get rid of SM would be happy with a similar degree of government control in other areas of their life.
I mean, ban Instagram because some people who use it end up unhappy after comparing themselves to others? Really?
I’m not saying SM isn’t affecting some people in a negative way, but people are also responsible for their own behaviour.

I talk to strangers.

All the time - any - and everyone. Like it. I don't need to socialise if I don't want to (or if they don't) and I can enjoy chatting without even having to think about whether I would really like this person if I knew them properly.

I can just chat amicably to strangers and find out all about their lives, and tell them all about mine, and there it is.

But then, I am in t' North.

Nah I’d be happy living in the middle of no where no neighbours or anyone else, go to work see my friends and family when I want and when suits us all as I do now. Everyone is different and what would work for some won’t work for others which in itself could cause issues

Yanbu

Theres about 10/12 mums waiting outside, no one talks to each other or even looks up..every single one looking at their phone. So depressing

Before people looked at their phones, they were often smoking fags instead. There isn't some halcyon age where humans were happy and sorted.

I agree with you about the state of fear that everyone is living in but I think it’s harsh to blame people for a lack of resilience when virtually every second article you read in the newspaper, or documentary you watch, is about how we are eating the wrong things, living in the wrong way, not exercising enough, not managing our time correctly, we are not even folding our pants the right way fhs!

This stuff is pumped out 24/7 on the internet because there’s money to be made out of books and documentaries that make us fearful and products that we all buy to fix a supposed problem that wasn’t really a problem in the first place.

No profit in being grateful and content and relatively happy with who you are. Oh no we all have to constantly renew our jobs, bodies, clothes, exercise regimes etc and homes. We are all the potential victims of unfettered capitalism unless we look at the bigger picture with a hugely critical eye.

I had the privilege of growing up in a fairly modest home in the seventies in the north of England and believe me it was bleak. No central heating. Ice on the inside of the windows. Nothing much in terms of entertainment and household appliances were limited too. Little choice in food unless it was tinned. Hardly any travel. Our parents had been evacuated as teens in the Second World War. Poor education, there were only three of us who made it in my class to university and we were the first members of our families to attend.

But I am grateful I had that experience as I can now fully appreciate how things have improved since - NOT for everyone I know - but very generally speaking overall, children benefit from better technology, better drugs, a wider choice of food, better travel and educational opportunities, central heating, better plumbing and cars. Of course there are still far too many who have slipped below the poverty line and to our shame have fallen through the nets of NHS and SS.

What we lack now is related more to a lack of trust between institutions and those they are supposed to serve. Increasing inequality. Lack of clarity about which news sources are trustworthy. Lack of physical closeness between family and friends. And frankly, without wishing to sound really old😀, a lack of recognition of the important of character: honesty, integrity, independence, resilience, selflessness, curiosity, and humility.

Sorry this is beginning to sound like a sermon ^^ 😀

I agree though that there seems to be a prevailing narrative that “someone else” will come along and take care of my problems. That if I call an ambulance because I am upset or lonely, or even if I am mildly depressed, I will be “taken away and fixed by someone else” when in reality that is the exact opposite of what will happen. I am not talking about people with serious mh diagnoses here btw but people who are just feeling ordinarily “blue”.

I don’t think that expectation is necessarily their fault though. They’ve been exposed to decades of sentimental claptrap about the NHS (I know it is really terrific in some areas btw) and decades of soap operas about caring nurses and doctors who will go the extra mile for them. They have not been taught to be proud of themselves for becoming quietly self-reliant.

Well done on getting away. I can't bear the thought that I will die here.

This bit I could be whoever I wanted to be. really resonates with me.

But they'd be far more likely to be talking each other whilst having a fag

Yes this is so true, all the bright kids disappear at 18 never to return.

Sometimes it is so ridiculous I have to laugh. As well as the horror of "the immigrants" and "the East Europeans" there is a local horror of anyone from Liverpool which is really odd. If there is ever a planning application for some new houses the outcry is always "they will be full of Liverpudlians on the dole." How these Liverpudlians all manage to get 5 bedroomed "executive" homes while on the dole puzzles me but apparently it is true although I have to say I rarely hear a Liverpudlian accent.

In case any Liverpudlians are offended they are nearly as bad about Brummies.

Posters on MN have said how ridiculous it would be if alcohol was banned (and how it worked out for the States) despite it being a known and accepted poison and detrimental in a lot of ways especially to MH and it argued that it is down to the individual yet SM needs to be banned and saying this using SM.

It’s all in how you choose to use it.

The things used against SM have mostly always existed beforehand. People compared themselves to others, people shared photos and videos of each other, their families, and their travels, news, etc.

It’s a personal problem if one cannot differentiate between what they see on SM and what they see outside of it in their own environment.

Agree wholeheartedly. hated the small town I grew up in for how narrow minded and homogenous it was. I had different tastes and aspirations so I didn’t fit in, didn’t feEl part of a community or make lifelong friends. I do feel part of a community in London though and find it much easier to make friends here

But they'd be far more likely to be talking each other whilst having a fag

Ha ha, but less likely to be talking to each other when they're in an early grave. Just urging for fewer rose tinted views.

Fully agree with this. The black and white thinking, the tribalism, the debate-terminating mechanisms…

I like this thread, because it’s thought provoking. I don’t agree with everything OP said, but I think she makes some very interesting points. Reading through the replies shows how many different views there are out there and how people can perceive the same situation very differently.

I think if more people felt they can discuss societal issues in a similar manner, it would be quite beneficial for the society as a whole.

And they still do talk to each other in some places. Where I come from up north, everyone chats to each other. Where I moved to down south, less so. I prefer the latter, but it's horses for courses. There's still plenty of places to live where people pop in for cuppas etc, but it's not everyone's cuppa either. And people are chatting on their phones and connected with more people like them online than they'd find in a local community so there's a lot of pro's as well as cons. My kids play online games with friends from all over the world instead of being stuck with the kids on the same street like I was.

Indeed look at us all chatting on here. There are darker sides of course, but there's also a ton of help on here for MH and many other issues women face that they used to have to face alone.

God people really like to spout regressive it-was-better-in-the-old-days nonsense.

My mental health would certainly be a million times worse if I hadn't had access to the internet growing up, if I couldn't leave my unpleasant small rural village as soon as was humanly possible, if I couldn't see as much of our amazing world as I have, if I'd been socially pressured to have children I was unsuited for, and if I had to herd myself into a stressful open-plan office to work every day for 40 years rather than getting on with what I like to do in an environment I enjoy (my home).

Constant home improvements and beauty pressures are something I've benefited from bowing out of, yes, but it wasn't that hard.

I do however, appreciate that if I were a medieval peasant, scratching a substance existence from the land, rather than having a Sainsbury's delivery every week, it might not have gone so well for me

I have Thoughts on this. Life would presumably have been short, harsh and miserable, not to mention cold and muddy, but I wonder how much fretting time and energy they actually had, after trying to sustain themselves growing turnips, dipping reeds in mutton fat to make stinking light sources, and other such medieval peasant activities?

Then again people did seem quite worked up about hellfire and eternal damnation round about then, so maybe that channelled their neurosis.

But would it be about anything positive, or would it be just be the same negativity that's currently on social media?

A element of gossip?
Genuine caring about each others wellbeing?
A bit of both?

The same as social media, then.

Talking in person isn't inherently any better than talking online.

I think that different people will have different views on how they prefer to interact, it may change depending on the situation, and I'm not sure any method is absolutely the best for everyone. I do think that technology which helps people keep in touch better, especially with those living further away, is a very good development.